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  1. #1

    Cotton Mill phase 1 is a go.

    LINK

    Phase 1 is the Hotel, Conference Center, and Parking Garage. Next phases from here on out should be easier to handle. The major hurdle on this one was the Park Service because Cooley is on the historic register. It seems that the Park Service would rather you tear a historic building down than renovate it. Thankfully, Senator Cochran finally got the Park Service to back down.

  2. #2
    Castleberry made this happen.

  3. #3
    No doubt he has done a great job. Was there something said in the article or my post that you took as a slight to him?

  4. #4
    Nah, I was just talking about Cotton Mills to a MSU official a few months ago, and that's what he said. Said if Castleberry wouldn't have gotten involved, it never would have went through.

    I think Phase Two is just a dream at this point. I don't think there is a defined date for any of the retail development. Have you heard anything differently?

  5. #5
    Thad is that you? Thad may have helped do something with park services but I'll say the historic tax credits were about 3 million of 40 million project. This project was never contingent on park services and historic tax credits.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by 57stratdawg View Post
    Nah, I was just talking about Cotton Mills to a MSU official a few months ago, and that's what he said. Said if Castleberry wouldn't have gotten involved, it never would have went through.

    I think Phase Two is just a dream at this point. I don't think there is a defined date for any of the retail development. Have you heard anything differently?
    There are a plans to put a "franchise restaurant" on one of the retail lots. However, this lot is currently being considered as a source of parking just in case the garage is not built.

  7. #7
    Project was definitely dependent on Park Service approval, which didn't happen until very recently. Also, you think $3M of a $40M project is insignificant when trying to get your financing done. I don't know what specifically he did, but I do know the University folks specifically said that Cochran's involvement ultimately made the project move forward.

  8. #8
    You are right about Phase 2 as it sits currently. Once the conference center is up and running (successfully) phase 2 financing should go much more smoothly than phase 1 did, and without the NPS headaches other than restrictions on development height and not blocking the front of Cooley.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by randystewart View Post
    Project was definitely dependent on Park Service approval, which didn't happen until very recently. Also, you think $3M of a $40M project is insignificant when trying to get your financing done. I don't know what specifically he did, but I do know the University folks specifically said that Cochran's involvement ultimately made the project move forward.
    I didn't say 3 million was insignificant. Had the developer not been able to secure historic tax credits then the loan amount would have increased. Or the project would have sought additional new market tax credits, which they are currently still doing. With the historic tax credits that money does not come in upfront anyway. The developer still had to source those funds upfront, which were done through a third party bridge lender. So, I'm telling you with 100% certainty that this project would have happened without the park services approval. What Thad was likely a big player in was getting state legislation passed, which allowed the developer the ability to enter in to a long term ground lease.

  10. #10
    Will the Marriot go in the Cooley building or will it be a separate structure? Same with the convention center.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by 57stratdawg View Post
    Will the Marriot go in the Cooley building or will it be a separate structure? Same with the convention center.
    Separate. If you are on Russell street looking at the Cooley building, the hotel will be to the left of the Cooley building.

    One cool thing the park services did request is the hotel and garage look as similar as possible to the Cooley building. So, this whole project will look similar rather than 3 different projects.

  12. #12
    Cooley building will be offices and Conference Center, Hotel will connect to it.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by ronpolk View Post
    There are a plans to put a "franchise restaurant" on one of the retail lots. However, this lot is currently being considered as a source of parking just in case the garage is not built.
    This is when I really 17ing hate Starkville. Most college towns or small artsy towns in America, especially the south, would approach a local restauranteur about opening a new restaurant. The dudes who own Restaurant Tyler and the Veranda would probably bite (if not, Anthony's... SOMEONE from east Mississippi would be interested), and even if the contract isn't for as much as Chili's or whoever it's better for $tarkville, the community, and ultimately when the building is run down and they abandon a specific architectural building 10 years later, it's better for the development.

    It's frustrating having to argue Starkville's worth to people when two of the first things you see when you exit campus are a McDonald's and a ghetto ass clothing store next to a 1950's Sears with a parking lot that couldn't possibly be filled EVER.

    Phase 1 is a good step. It's not good enough though. We need to keep asking for more.
    Last edited by esplanade91; 03-17-2014 at 07:20 PM.

  14. #14
    One thing I want to know is why the 17 they won't demolish the old signs next to chick Fil a

  15. #15
    The reason you want a chain is that there is much lower risk of the business failing and leaving you vacant.

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by esplanade91 View Post
    This is when I really 17ing hate Starkville. Most college towns or small artsy towns in America, especially the south, would approach a local restauranteur about opening a new restaurant. The dudes who own Restaurant Tyler and the Veranda would probably bite (if not, Anthony's... SOMEONE from east Mississippi would be interested), and even if the contract isn't for as much as Chili's or whoever it's better for $tarkville, the community, and ultimately when the building is run down and they abandon a specific architectural building 10 years later, it's better for the development.

    It's frustrating having to argue Starkville's worth to people when two of the first things you see when you exit campus are a McDonald's and a ghetto ass clothing store next to a 1950's Sears with a parking lot that couldn't possibly be filled EVER.

    Phase 1 is a good step. It's not good enough though. We need to keep asking for more.
    I agree 100%. And to be honest, I don't know how set in stone the franchise is. I just know the original plans said franchise to be named later. But like philly eludes to, it's much easier to get on a loan to build a restaurant when someone like Outback has signed a 15 year lease.

  17. #17
    And I get that. But how many times has a vacant restaurant spent more than 8 months that way? If a restaurant fails, someone else is convinced their own brand is going to work. The same goes for bars.

    Like I said, sometimes it's worth taking slightly less money. I thought it would have more of a local feel since he hired a local group with stakes in the community.

    The guy who owns like 50 restaurants in Gulfport and the state prison food contract has a son at state. Ask him. There are people with the money and balls to sign a 10 year lease. The good local restaurants are the most popular in Starkville. I can't remember a restaurant that wasn't halfassed and in a good location ever failing.
    Last edited by esplanade91; 03-17-2014 at 07:48 PM.

  18. #18

    You'll

    have to excuse my ignorance, but I was curious as to what real property interest the NPS has on these grounds. Fee?

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by ronpolk View Post
    I agree 100%. And to be honest, I don't know how set in stone the franchise is. I just know the original plans said franchise to be named later. But like philly eludes to, it's much easier to get on a loan to build a restaurant when someone like Outback has signed a 15 year lease.
    See... That's my thinking. If it's an Outback or something of that scale then I'm all for it. If they put another something along the lines of a Chili's/Applebee's/Ruby Tuesday, then I'll be pissed.

    I'm still waiting on the guy to franchise a Chipotle or a Moe's in Starkville and Oxford and make bank. Wish I had the capital to take on such a project.

  20. #20

    Most of this is correct

    Quote Originally Posted by ronpolk View Post
    With the historic tax credits that money does not come in upfront anyway.
    He gets the tax credit money up front because he sold them to a private company. Ron Polk is correct, though, the historic credits on this property were never the hold up. IHL was. They had turnover recently and everyone had to buy back in the project.

  21. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by KurtRambis4 View Post
    have to excuse my ignorance, but I was curious as to what real property interest the NPS has on these grounds. Fee?
    The NPS oversees the federal historic tax credit program. They have to review all plans and oversee construction to ensure to building is being built to the original look.

  22. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by esplanade91 View Post
    And I get that. But how many times has a vacant restaurant spent more than 8 months that way? If a restaurant fails, someone else is convinced their own brand is going to work. The same goes for bars.

    Like I said, sometimes it's worth taking slightly less money. I thought it would have more of a local feel since he hired a local group with stakes in the community.

    The guy who owns like 50 restaurants in Gulfport and the state prison food contract has a son at state. Ask him. There are people with the money and balls to sign a 10 year lease. The good local restaurants are the most popular in Starkville. I can't remember a restaurant that wasn't halfassed and in a good location ever failing.
    I agree with you all the way. If you're taking someone to Starkville are you gonna take them to Applebee's or the veranda? I would much rather see a local restaurant in there. And that may happen. I don't believe the developer has anyone in mind, it was just laid out as a franchise restaurant.

  23. #23
    Is there a rendering that shows what the final product will look like?

  24. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Philly Dawg View Post
    The reason you want a chain is that there is much lower risk of the business failing and leaving you vacant.
    That does work. A little name recognition goes a long way. I had my doubts about Donald Lee's Beef o' Bradys making it especially since it was a long way from campus. But we drove down one day just goofing off and had to wait for a table. The place was packed and it looks like it is doing very well.

  25. #25

    Cotton Mills

    Now if they will just move that huge eyesore of concrete, steel and other crap next to Chick-Fil-A and BWW, I'll be real impressed. Only been there for thee years.

  26. #26
    Injury Analyst rabiddawg's Avatar
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    Chains also bring regional association. People from Gainsville, Red Stick, Tuscaloosa, College Station know what a Chile's is and will bite. They will pass over the local establishments to chose a national brand because of familiarity.

  27. #27
    Injury Analyst rabiddawg's Avatar
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    17 Outback








    Stillfuminku

  28. #28
    It's going to be a Corner Bakery franchise like the one by gradview in Madison http://www.cornerbakerycafe.com/

  29. #29

    Wow, I haven't eaten there but what I've heard hasn't been good.

    nmku
    I don't always drink but when I do I become a message board genius**

  30. #30
    Now THIS is what Starkville has been missing... a sandwich shop!

  31. #31
    Amen!!

    Two Sweet Peppers, Four Subways, Fire House, Oby's, and a McCallisters' isn't nearly enough market saturation.

  32. #32
    seriously that lot needs cleaning up and the signs need to be torn as engie would put it DOWN

  33. #33
    The General HD6's Avatar
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    Shoney's closed in 1996, and that lot sat vacant for at least 10 years.
    "At South Panola we still honor what the word commitment means"-Lance Pogue


  34. #34
    Defensive Coordinator Shamoan's Avatar
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    i have zero idea if this is current or not, but google says:

    OR

    OR

  35. #35

    Such hospitality!

    So the town should be more interested in what Alabama Man & Family, who will be in town maybe 2 days every other year, might be familiar with (and don't worry, they'll STILL shit on Starkville every chance they get, regardless of how exemplary their service at TGI McGrizzlebee's was) than what many former (and current) residents have stated they would like to see in town.
    Last edited by jakldawg; 03-18-2014 at 07:38 PM.

  36. #36
    They do administer the Historic Tax Credits but they don't oversee construction. There is a 2 part submission that is a requirement as part of the program. Now you won't get the funds of you don't stick to the plans laid out in the 2nd phase. And you can get a lot more than 3M on a 40M project in Hist. Tax Credits. Of course that depends on how much is a rehab. They possibly could have qualified for New Market Tax credits. But that is a trickier ballgame.

  37. #37
    Injury Analyst rabiddawg's Avatar
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    They are going to use a ton of white paint

  38. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by EAVdog View Post
    They do administer the Historic Tax Credits but they don't oversee construction. There is a 2 part submission that is a requirement as part of the program. Now you won't get the funds of you don't stick to the plans laid out in the 2nd phase. And you can get a lot more than 3M on a 40M project in Hist. Tax Credits. Of course that depends on how much is a rehab. They possibly could have qualified for New Market Tax credits. But that is a trickier ballgame.
    What you're saying regarding historics is correct, as it pertains to getting the part 1,2 and 3 certifications. The amount is based on qualified reimbursable expenses. In this case, the historic tax credits are in fact $3 million. US Bank is buying the historic tax credits. Also, the project is getting new market tax credits. Trustmark and US Bank are buying the new market tax credits. The new markets total about $6.5 million. The remainder of the funds are coming from EB5 funds and a Trustmark loan.

  39. #39
    Alright, so I live in Austin, TX. This entire project is a joke (a 17'n Courtyard at the main intersection of town and campus? yay.) and proof that Starkville will never get out of its own way. Small minded growth at its best. Suggest stopping by Austin sometime and seeing what development is really all about. Local. Unique. The core of the city's success.

    Beef O' Brady's? Jesus. Embarrassing.

  40. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by Shamoan View Post
    i have zero idea if this is current or not, but google says:

    OR

    OR
    Neither of these are the current plan. The last picture is the only one close. I would imagine the renderings will be released Thursday.

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