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  1. #1

    Curtis Flowers ruling overturned



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  2. #2

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    Is it pretty much understood that he did it? Seems like all the evidence points to him.


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  3. #3

    I didn't think there was any physical evidence.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cat Duck View Post
    Is it pretty much understood that he did it? Seems like all the evidence points to him.

    It was basically all shaky eye witness accounts and jailhouse snitches.. that later recanted. There was some very questionable stuff with the guy who's gun he claimed was "stolen" lying in the first place about where he got the gun. Then also the guy they found who was living in Winona at the time of the murders, that I believe murdered his girlfriend later on in Chicago? I might be off.


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  4. #4

    Check these threads....

    Quote Originally Posted by Cat Duck View Post
    Is it pretty much understood that he did it? Seems like all the evidence points to him.
    https://forums.sixpackspeak.com/show...ght=Doug+Evans



    https://forums.sixpackspeak.com/show...ght=Doug+Evans


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  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Cat Duck View Post
    Is it pretty much understood that he did it? Seems like all the evidence points to him.
    What evidence? I've done a good bit of reading on his this, I don't know if he did it or not, but I haven't seen any physical evidence presented.


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  6. #6
    This ruling being overturned has nothing to do with Flowers' guilt or innocence or any actual evidence. It's very likely this will lead to yet another trail.

    The conviction was overturned because the DA has repeatedly used racial bias to stack the deck against Flowers during jury selection. The Supreme Court has rightly ruled that that is unconstitutional.


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  7. #7
    Maroon Eagle's Avatar
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    This. And Kavanaugh writing for the 7-2 majority.


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  8. #8
    GTAdawg's Avatar
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    Not inferring anything at all, just interesting that the one African-American supreme court justice dissented against the court's ruling and noted that Flowers brought forth "no evidence whatsoever of purposeful race discrimination".
    SixPack's Amateur - Professional Golf Analyst


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  9. #9
    Short article about some other possible suspects https://www.apmreports.org/story/201...niture-murders that were committing similar crimes at the time


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  10. #10
    There’s an Into The Dark podcast into this. Either way, the DA shouldn’t be able to act the way he did.


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  11. #11
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  12. #12
    he did it and the DA followed the same jury selection process that the defense did


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  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Cat Duck View Post
    Is it pretty much understood that he did it? Seems like all the evidence points to him.
    Nope. The story that he did it is based on nothing more than a prosecutor that wanted a rep with white people in a town. Flowers had no background or reputation for any behavior like this. No murder weapon. The only real lead of a convict who passed through town was ignored. This was simply a case of people valuing a conviction for ANYBODY guilty or not, over a fair trial. Cavenaugh and Alito, highly conservative justices were astonished at the repeated mistakes that were made in all 6 trials. Cavenaugh even questioned why the states attorney general didn’t step in and reassign the Prosecutor before he kept making a mockery of jury selection.

    This latest argument in the US Supreme Court was a serious black eye to the Mississippi judicial system and our own Supreme Court who rejected the appeal.


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  14. #14
    PineGroveBully's Avatar
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    I've followed this for years and I'm not convinced he had anything to do with it.
    What's the difference in a Hippo and a Zippo?

    One is a little lighter


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  15. #15
    TrueMaroonGrind's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Apoplectic_Objurgator View Post
    he did it and the DA followed the same jury selection process that the defense did
    If you have paid attention to the case with an open mind, you would know that is incorrect. The evidence was not good enough to convict him of the crime.

    The jury selection process was appalling and shameful. I highly recommend everyone listen to the Supreme Court hearing. It gives a good read on how sad this whole ordeal was.


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  16. #16
    Poor investigation/police work. Not following up on another suspect. The possible murder weapon going "missing" while in police custody. We'll probably never know for sure who did it, but I doubt Curtis gets convicted if he is tried again.


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  17. #17
    I agree with this. It was a circumstantial case that was held together by informant testimony. Now that the informants recanted and the podcast revealed just how poorly the investigation was handled and the entire Odell Hallmon story, it just looks like blatant corruption or incompetence.

    I have no idea who committed the crimes, but there is plenty of reasonable doubt without the informant testimony that Is really not admissible/ useful in another retrial.


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  18. #18

    I didn’t think they ever had the weapon to begin with..

    Quote Originally Posted by greenbean View Post
    Poor investigation/police work. Not following up on another suspect. The possible murder weapon going "missing" while in police custody. We'll probably never know for sure who did it, but I doubt Curtis gets convicted if he is tried again.
    Could be wrong, but I thought I remembered that guy just came forward on the day of the murder and was like “oh yea my gun got stolen btw. Wasn’t me tho. Curtis Flowers knew where I hid it”


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  19. #19
    What would be a motive for these murders? Robbery, vengeance?


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  20. #20
    The claimed motive was that Flowers had been fired from the furniture store a few weeks before, and that the owner had withheld money from his paycheck for dropping a load of batteries out of the back of a truck and damaging them.

    I believe they also said they found near the same amount of money taken from the store hidden in either his headboard or his girlfriends headboard.

    I’ve read and listened to everything I could on the flowers case, and I have no idea if he did it or not. He very well might have.

    But I do know there was some shady stuff going on with the DA and the detective. I think it’s a case of law enforcement thinking they have the right guy and trying everything they can to make their case fit around that guy.


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  21. #21
    It’s pretty well established Doug Evans is a piece of shit. He should have never been allowed to lead the 2nd trial after the MS Supreme Court overturned his conviction, much less 5 more times. It’s pretty incredible that they’d waste taxpayers money on 6 trials instead of bringing in somebody else on #2 and just have a fair trial.


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  22. #22
    It's the Mississippi way. "We're not gonna let them damn libral judges tell US how to get a conviction."


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  23. #23
    TrueMaroonGrind's Avatar
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    The state cannot take over the case unless Doug Evans asks them to. So he can try Flowers as much as he wants and the State can't do anything until Flowers attempts an appeal.

    ETA: This was discussed during the Supreme Court hearing.


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  24. #24
    Which is exactly why he’s a piece of shit. Same as the prosecutor in the Serial case where he continued to prosecute while he was running for another office.


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  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by FreeDawg View Post
    It’s pretty well established Doug Evans is a piece of shit. He should have never been allowed to lead the 2nd trial after the MS Supreme Court overturned his conviction, much less 5 more times. It’s pretty incredible that they’d waste taxpayers money on 6 trials instead of bringing in somebody else on #2 and just have a fair trial.
    He briefly worked at my late Dad's law firm. He always struck me as being upwardly mobile. I'm surprised he hasn't run for a higher political office.

    Another thing in this case is the pitiful representation the defendant got in his first 4 or so trials, all by public defenders. They didn't do a whole lot to protect the mans innocence. Almost as if they 'went along' with what the prosecutor wanted.


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  26. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by maroonmadman View Post
    He briefly worked at my late Dad's law firm. He always struck me as being upwardly mobile. I'm surprised he hasn't run for a higher political office.

    Another thing in this case is the pitiful representation the defendant got in his first 4 or so trials, all by public defenders. They didn't do a whole lot to protect the mans innocence. Almost as if they 'went along' with what the prosecutor wanted.
    After observing the Avery case and this one, it appears society, locally that is, places a good deal of pressure on Prosecutors to get convictions to the point that making sure the most prosecutable person gets tried. Not necessarily the guilty. Because of this pressure and getting elected is based off getting closure for citizens, It’s fairly understandable that the system perpetuates a result that does not prioritize getting it right.


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  27. #27
    I think he is innocent. I'm speaking from experience. The justice system in Mississippi is corrupt.


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  28. #28
    This reads like the script for Making a Murderer season 3


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  29. #29
    Based on what?
    Jack may be gone, but he is "EVER PRESENT"


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  30. #30
    Wasn’t there multiple black people on the jury that convicted him the previous six times or am I dreaming?


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  31. #31

    Not mentioned in this thread but should be noted...

    Forensic evidence showed there were gunshot particles found on Flower's thumb.

    Also , the man whose gun was stolen was not just any random man but Flower's uncle.


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  32. #32

    They cover the gun particles in the podcast...

    Quote Originally Posted by Ace-Leroy View Post
    Forensic evidence showed there were gunshot particles found on Flower's thumb.

    Also , the man whose gun was stolen was not just any random man but Flower's uncle.
    And why it’s bogus and often inadmissible. For instance simply sitting in a cop car if the officer has recently been to the firing range can cause you to have gun shot residue contamination. Shaking hands with anyone who has fired a gun relatively recently, etc. Here is a good write up from Cornell law school.of the physical that was used to convict Flowers.

    https://courses2.cit.cornell.edu/soc...cevidence.html



    “Joe Andrews, a forensic scientist specializing in trace evidence, testified at trial that Flowers’s gunshot residue test revealed one particle of gunshot residue on the back of Flowers’s right hand”

    “Gunshot residue lasts nearly forever. It can land on anything and stay there indefinitely. Because many people in this country shoot guns and the things in their lives are covered with gunshot residue, an individual will be covered with gunshot residue when he or she comes in contact with these people or anything they touched. On the other hand, it can be easily tampered with and altered. Having a consistency similar to very fine talcum powder, its distribution is easily ruined by simple actions like dusting down clothes or washing hands.”


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  33. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by civildawg88 View Post
    Wasn’t there multiple black people on the jury that convicted him the previous six times or am I dreaming?
    The make up of the juries ranged from all white to 9:3 white. The juries usually had 1 or 2 blacks on it because Evans' ran out of strikes.

    Curtis has been convicted 4 times and there were 2 mistrails.

    It should be noted that even though race was the basis for most of the appeals, the investigative reporting on this case really did a number on the evidence used to convict. It's going to be very difficult to get a conviction now if they have another trial.


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  34. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by TrueMaroonGrind View Post
    The state cannot take over the case unless Doug Evans asks them to. So he can try Flowers as much as he wants and the State can't do anything until Flowers attempts an appeal.

    ETA: This was discussed during the Supreme Court hearing.
    Which is what Alito and Cavenaugh were pondering about. They were essentially asking how a state government can fail to correct this error. That the state has to ask permission from the person who committed the wrong MORE THAN ONCE to move on in the interest of justice shows our state is clinging to archaic ideas.


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  35. #35
    A history of corruption. Small town Mississippi that in many (more that you would like to think) cases, STILL has idiots who are racists, consistently demonstrating their inferiority through claims (or actions) of superiority...


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  36. #36
    I have no idea of guilt or innocence or improper prosecution. I did not see a mention of facts, in this thread, that I heard discussed. I don't know if they are accurate or not. The reason it was overturned from what I understand was the high amount of african americans that were struck from the jury each time. This discussion mentioned that many of those people struck were within Flower's circle. Many were related or friends/colleagues or family of colleagues. Just some more info to muddy the conversation.


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  37. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by civildawg88 View Post
    Wasn’t there multiple black people on the jury that convicted him the previous six times or am I dreaming?
    The only two times there was more than one black juror, the trial resulted in a hung jury.

    https://www.huffpost.com/entry/supre...1?guccounter=1 Third paragraph here.
    Last edited by VegasDawg13; 06-24-2019 at 10:52 AM. Reason: grammar


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  38. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by Bulldog Bruce View Post
    I have no idea of improper prosecution.
    The man has been convicted and had it overturned 4 times for multiple reasons and at multiple levels of the appellate court system. You can be certain of improper prosecution.


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  39. #39
    Which raises the question of how can it ever be claimed that this man has received a speedy and fair trial. He's been in jail for 20 years and hasn't been legally convicted of anything.


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  40. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by patdog View Post
    Which raises the question of how can it ever be claimed that this man has received a speedy and fair trial. He's been in jail for 20 years and hasn't been legally convicted of anything.
    He was convicted... maybe not fairly, but he was convicted.


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