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  1. #1
    Maroon Eagle's Avatar
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    20 years since retiring: Barry Sanders left because of Croom?

    From the Detroit Free Press:
    “Hill went a step further and said he believes Croom is why Sanders retired, though he admittedly has never talked to Sanders about that.

    “You god damn right (I think he’s one of the greatest running backs ever),” Hill said. “And now I actually think he greater cause that dude was under Sylvester Croom and he did all that.
    “The dude that helped run Barry out of Detroit was Sylvester Croom, the offensive coordinator. And he was pissed off because they went and got him instead of some guys that they could have gotten as offensive coordinator and that was a frustrating ordeal because that was like the third or fourth or fifth or sixth time that a move had been made with the Detroit Lions, not thinking about the benefits of Barry or not thinking about the benefits of your offense or whatever and he had just gotten to the point to where the dude was just like, ‘Look, y’all can’t get it right so you’re not going to let me go so I need to just walk away.’ And he never said that, (but) that was it.””

    https://www.freep.com/in-depth/sports/nfl/lions/2019/07/21/barry-sanders-retirement-detroit-lions/1767989001/


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  2. #2
    If that's true then Croom robbed the world of the last few years of seeing one of the greatest ever play the game.


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  3. #3
    Sylvester Croom robbed me every time I purchased a football ticket during his tenure at State. I will always remember the Maine debacle I witnessed from the club level. Yuck!

    Quote Originally Posted by Hugh's Burner Phone View Post
    If that's true then Croom robbed the world of the last few years of seeing one of the greatest ever play the game.


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  4. #4
    One wonders how many times the phrase, "coached Barry Sanders" was uttered in the run up to, then during, and then after the Crxxmz' abortion at Mississippi State.
    Last edited by Shmuley; 07-21-2019 at 02:42 PM.
    “I’m not going to take anything off the table at this point in time ... but I will tell you this,” Cohen began, “this person is going to have serious baseball experience as a head coach. This person is going to have made trips to Omaha, Nebraska. This person is going to have expertise in an area of the game and in all facets of the game. And this person is going to make our fan base very happy.” - Intense Bastard, April 5, 2018.


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  5. #5
    BossDawg78's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joe Schmedlap View Post
    Sylvester Croom robbed me every time I purchased a football ticket during his tenure at State. I will always remember the Maine debacle I witnessed from the club level. Yuck!
    Except for 2007, especially after the Liberty Bowl win. Nearly every day I look back on that and wonder how in the world I got so hooked on what Croom was "building". Talk about drinking the kool-aid...I was blackout drunk on that $#!t and desperate for good news. I was incapable of seeing how unprepared the team was and that '07 was pure luck with a sprinkle of Ellis Johnson.
    Last edited by BossDawg78; 07-21-2019 at 02:15 PM.


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  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Maroon Eagle View Post
    From the Detroit Free Press:
    “Hill went a step further and said he believes Croom is why Sanders retired, though he admittedly has never talked to Sanders about that.

    “You god damn right (I think he’s one of the greatest running backs ever),” Hill said. “And now I actually think he greater cause that dude was under Sylvester Croom and he did all that.
    “The dude that helped run Barry out of Detroit was Sylvester Croom, the offensive coordinator. And he was pissed off because they went and got him instead of some guys that they could have gotten as offensive coordinator and that was a frustrating ordeal because that was like the third or fourth or fifth or sixth time that a move had been made with the Detroit Lions, not thinking about the benefits of Barry or not thinking about the benefits of your offense or whatever and he had just gotten to the point to where the dude was just like, ‘Look, y’all can’t get it right so you’re not going to let me go so I need to just walk away.’ And he never said that, (but) that was it.””

    https://www.freep.com/in-depth/sports/nfl/lions/2019/07/21/barry-sanders-retirement-detroit-lions/1767989001/
    All ill feelings about Croom aside (and there are plenty on my end), I think that’s a bit of a reach. Not playing for a team because you don’t like the OC and completely quitting your chosen profession for that reason are two different things. Sanders had good years left, and could have kept playing somewhere if he wanted to. He could have worked through his agent to get traded from Detroit, or sat a year and become a free agent. And whether Croom was the right or wrong choice, no organization is going to make long term hiring decisions based on the whims of a 30 year old running back. If Sanders really did retire completely because of one OC hire, that says more about him than it does about Croom.


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  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by BossDawg78 View Post
    Except for 2007, especially after the Liberty Bowl win. Nearly every day I look back on that and wonder how in the world I got so hooked on what Croom was "building". Talk about drinking the kool-aid...I was blackout drunk on that $#!t and desperate for good news. I was incapable of seeing how unprepared the team was and that '07 was pure luck with a sprinkle of Ellis Johnson.
    We didn't have a choice. Templeton sold out on that and was determined to give him 10 years. If not for Doc, it would have went on indefinitely.

    That guy was so terrible, pretty much all our offensive players got worse under him. I can't name one that got better. Jerious was already good. Dixon didn't do much until Mullen got here. Wes Carroll was best as a freshman because he hadn't received any Crooms coaching yet. Everybody we got was already at max potential and either stagnated or got worse. Honestly our offensive talent was best in 2004 and only got worse the longer he stayed. Mullen would have won 6.

    I look back at our 2007 schedule and remember how I would strategize about how to get to 6 wins. How we could steal a win from playing this team after they played that team, and how they were overlooking us, haha.


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  8. #8
    Rick Ray was a worse head coach than croom. Croom catches a lot of shit but he's not even the worst football coach we've had in the last 40 years. He was just not a good coach and fans shit on him for trying to create a culture of winning when it had never existed in quite possibly the toughest power 5 place to win at the time.


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  9. #9
    Bullshit. MSU fans in no way "shit on" Croom for "trying to create a culture of winning". This may be the stupidest thing ever posted on this board and that's a hell-of-a feat.


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  10. #10
    Maroon Eagle's Avatar
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    Eh. There’s one coach in the past 40 years whose record is similar to Croom’s and I think Felker was better than Croom— and that’s counting the Tech and Ten season.


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  11. #11
    Maroon Eagle's Avatar
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    True. Folks here wanted Croom and Felker to be successful. But they weren’t.

    A part of me thinks that Felker would have taken the team to a bowl the next year— and Jackie Sherrill showed that Rockey did a good job in building a team with the Liberty appearance in his first season.


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  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by state2013 View Post
    Rick Ray was a worse head coach than croom. Croom catches a lot of shit but he's not even the worst football coach we've had in the last 40 years. He was just not a good coach and fans shit on him for trying to create a culture of winning when it had never existed in quite possibly the toughest power 5 place to win at the time.
    Worst take there could be. Everybody wanted that guy to win. He was a bad coach and he had an entitled attitude. He could have been a decent recruiter type coach had he done it right but he was too proud to do that.


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  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by state2013 View Post
    Rick Ray was a worse head coach than croom. Croom catches a lot of shit but he's not even the worst football coach we've had in the last 40 years. He was just not a good coach and fans shit on him for trying to create a culture of winning when it had never existed in quite possibly the toughest power 5 place to win at the time.
    Ray was not a good coach, but at least Ray was grateful for the opportunity. It didn't work out for him here, and he and State respectfully parted ways. I wish Rick Ray all the best in the future, and am appreciative for what he tried to do here.

    Sly Croom has several myths surrounding his time here. Contrary to narrative, he didn't clean up the program. Croom had just as many or more players get into trouble than Jackie Sherril. The cherry on top was two players firing a gun on campus right before the 2008 season. Croom never wanted to be here in the first place either. He thought we were beneath him and his Alabama Alma Mater. Lastly, Croom went on a nationally televised "documentary" and blamed Mississippi State for his firing, insinuating that he never had the full support of the University. Give me Rick Ray any day. Croom was fired because we sucked every year he was here, and that includes 2007. We were the worst 8-5 team of all time


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  14. #14
    Miketice's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by state2013 View Post
    Rick Ray was a worse head coach than croom. Croom catches a lot of shit but he's not even the worst football coach we've had in the last 40 years. He was just not a good coach and fans shit on him for trying to create a culture of winning when it had never existed in quite possibly the toughest power 5 place to win at the time.
    No disrespect. Really. But this is some bullshit.
    #Frankthetank


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  15. #15
    Miketice's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Go Budaw View Post
    All ill feelings about Croom aside (and there are plenty on my end), I think that’s a bit of a reach. Not playing for a team because you don’t like the OC and completely quitting your chosen profession for that reason are two different things. Sanders had good years left, and could have kept playing somewhere if he wanted to. He could have worked through his agent to get traded from Detroit, or sat a year and become a free agent. And whether Croom was the right or wrong choice, no organization is going to make long term hiring decisions based on the whims of a 30 year old running back. If Sanders really did retire completely because of one OC hire, that says more about him than it does about Croom.
    "whims" I'm thinking it was more of a painful long ass career> And one more bad hire sent him out the door. I can hear him now. "17 it. That's it I'm out."
    #Frankthetank


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  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by state2013 View Post
    Rick Ray was a worse head coach than croom. Croom catches a lot of shit but he's not even the worst football coach we've had in the last 40 years. He was just not a good coach and fans shit on him for trying to create a culture of winning when it had never existed in quite possibly the toughest power 5 place to win at the time.
    I would literally rather us fire Howland tomorrow and hire Rick Ray back than to honor Sly Croom at a football game (ok maybe not literally). 17 that guy. He was an ungrateful, hard headed asshole that gave us the self inflicted death penalty because he was too hard headed to try and mold the players on our team and just kicked everyone off the roster like he was a Navy Seal instructor. The fact that he thought he should have 10 years to rebuild our program and then had the audacity to go on television and say that he did not have the support of the school after the terrible, incompetent shit we had to watch every Saturday makes my blood boil.
    Last edited by campshelbydog842003; 07-21-2019 at 03:51 PM.


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  17. #17
    Calm down. Some of you have a real weird disdain for Sylvester croom. He was a bad head coach, got fired and didn't like it. I guess that means just 17 him, right?


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  18. #18
    BossDawg78's Avatar
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    We certainly didn't shit on Croom. I've never seen a State fan that wasn't at least a little excited about him at first and willing to give him a chance (and he had plenty of chances). If by "shit on him" you mean "fans got frustrated and unhappy because it was clear he wasn't cut out to be a head coach", then yeah, he got shit on just like every other coach at every other program.


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  19. #19
    Please explain how my post indicates that I have "disdain" for that sorry POS ...LOL


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  20. #20
    BossDawg78's Avatar
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    You are desperately trying to put words in our mouths. You can go to any message board of any team and I'll bet you everything I own that somewhere fans are cutting down one of their previous head coaches for not winning.


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  21. #21
    The fact that we endured Croom, Polk II/the early Cohen years, and Rick Ray all within the span of a decade tells you all you need to know about why MSU fans have PTSD when it comes to sports.


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  22. #22
    I’m calling bullshit in that whole story. It’s just one guys theory, with no input from Sanders by his own words. I’m pretty sure I’d push cane to shove, Barry Sanders could had any OC he wanted.


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  23. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by state2013 View Post
    Calm down. Some of you have a real weird disdain for Sylvester croom. He was a bad head coach, got fired and didn't like it. I guess that means just 17 him, right?
    Dang right. He made a laughingstock out of the football program we all care about, and had an attitude on top of that.

    We all know what type of reaction you are trying to elicit. Easy to induce, from your posting history.


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  24. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by state2013 View Post
    Rick Ray was a worse head coach than croom. Croom catches a lot of shit but he's not even the worst football coach we've had in the last 40 years. He was just not a good coach and fans shit on him for trying to create a culture of winning when it had never existed in quite possibly the toughest power 5 place to win at the time.
    I'm normally not one to call someone out and I'm not saying you're a dummy, but this post is a dummy. Respectfully, of course.

    Croom has fooled alot of people for a long while. Wait, we all might be the dummies.


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  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maroon Eagle View Post
    Eh. There’s one coach in the past 40 years whose record is similar to Croom’s and I think Felker was better than Croom— and that’s counting the Tech and Ten season.
    I agree that Felker > Croom but, that Tech & 10 season was the most God-awful football season I have witnessed. The most God-awful game I've ever seen has to be Maine.


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  26. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Goat Holding Inc View Post
    We didn't have a choice. Templeton sold out on that and was determined to give him 10 years. If not for Doc, it would have went on indefinitely.

    That guy was so terrible, pretty much all our offensive players got worse under him. I can't name one that got better. Jerious was already good. Dixon didn't do much until Mullen got here. Wes Carroll was best as a freshman because he hadn't received any Crooms coaching yet. Everybody we got was already at max potential and either stagnated or got worse. Honestly our offensive talent was best in 2004 and only got worse the longer he stayed. Mullen would have won 6.

    I look back at our 2007 schedule and remember how I would strategize about how to get to 6 wins. How we could steal a win from playing this team after they played that team, and how they were overlooking us, haha.
    Am I understanding you correctly, we gave Croom a 10 years contract?
    "A lot of people on this board have been riding the cotton pony lately! "
    ME. 2019


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  27. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by state2013 View Post
    Rick Ray was a worse head coach than croom. Croom catches a lot of shit but he's not even the worst football coach we've had in the last 40 years. He was just not a good coach and fans shit on him for trying to create a culture of winning when it had never existed in quite possibly the toughest power 5 place to win at the time.
    What a terrible take. Sylvester should be in prison for grand larceny. He stole millions from Mississippi State.

    Dan Mullen instantly changed the culture here and that should tell you all you need to know about Croom’s incompetence. He is the worst coach in the history of the SEC.


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  28. #28
    I bet Barry is happy he can still walk and didnt fo more irreversible damage to his brain. His legacy was secure when he left.


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  29. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by BossDawg78 View Post
    You are desperately trying to put words in our mouths. You can go to any message board of any team and I'll bet you everything I own that somewhere fans are cutting down one of their previous head coaches for not winning.
    I’ll add that if Nicky Saban lost 2 regular season games, you would hear a lot of disdain from Bama fans.
    Last edited by bruiser; 07-21-2019 at 10:00 PM.


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  30. #30
    Anyone defending Croom, go watch the 2008 Egg Bowl again. I’m sure OM has it archived.

    What a brutal day that was capped off with croom saying “I don’t know what happened today” In the post game press conference. He sealed his own fate that day.


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  31. #31
    After his last Egg Bowl I told the wife that we weren’t buying season tickets until he was gone. That was a joke and the most pathetic display I’ve ever seen. Of our all time worst performances Croom was the head coach for probably 2/3 of them. I was sick of driving two hours and putting in all that work to tailgate and go to a game when I knew we would have to return a punt for TD, int for TD and win the turnover battle by +3 to just have a CHANCE to win. Croom is definitely one of the worst head coaches in my lifetime following the SEC. Too stubborn to get out of his own way.


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  32. #32
    Croom took over for the 2004 season, and we were bad. Every season was about the same. We never improved.

    We were infinitely better in 2008 (Mullen’s first) and went 5-6. That’s when I realized how terrible Croom really was.


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  33. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by Maroon Eagle View Post
    From the Detroit Free Press:
    “Hill went a step further and said he believes Croom is why Sanders retired, though he admittedly has never talked to Sanders about that.

    “You god damn right (I think he’s one of the greatest running backs ever),” Hill said. “And now I actually think he greater cause that dude was under Sylvester Croom and he did all that.
    “The dude that helped run Barry out of Detroit was Sylvester Croom, the offensive coordinator. And he was pissed off because they went and got him instead of some guys that they could have gotten as offensive coordinator and that was a frustrating ordeal because that was like the third or fourth or fifth or sixth time that a move had been made with the Detroit Lions, not thinking about the benefits of Barry or not thinking about the benefits of your offense or whatever and he had just gotten to the point to where the dude was just like, ‘Look, y’all can’t get it right so you’re not going to let me go so I need to just walk away.’ And he never said that, (but) that was it.””

    https://www.freep.com/in-depth/sports/nfl/lions/2019/07/21/barry-sanders-retirement-detroit-lions/1767989001/
    Croom was a bad coach for us. But I'm taking the word of a running back who wasn't even on the team with Sanders and appears to be a loudmouth with a massive grain of salt. It does sound to me like there may have been some friction between Ross and Sanders. Or Barry was just too burned out to respond to him. I have heard that Sander's Dad didn't like Croom as well FWIW.


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  34. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by BossDawg78 View Post
    Except for 2007, especially after the Liberty Bowl win. Nearly every day I look back on that and wonder how in the world I got so hooked on what Croom was "building". Talk about drinking the kool-aid...I was blackout drunk on that $#!t and desperate for good news. I was incapable of seeing how unprepared the team was and that '07 was pure luck with a sprinkle of Ellis Johnson.
    I don't think any MSU fan should apologize or feel bad about supporting a coach or the program. We show up and pay money. Their job is to produce a product that represents MSU well on and off the field. Croom didn't do his job in that regard.


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  35. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by Maroon Eagle View Post
    Eh. There’s one coach in the past 40 years whose record is similar to Croom’s and I think Felker was better than Croom— and that’s counting the Tech and Ten season.
    They're pretty similar record wise- Felker went 21-34 and Croom went 21-38. Both had one winning season in same amount of time. Croom's 2007 season was better than any of Felker's but he also had worse losses than Felker too- see Maine.


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  36. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by Go Budaw View Post
    All ill feelings about Croom aside (and there are plenty on my end), I think that’s a bit of a reach. Not playing for a team because you don’t like the OC and completely quitting your chosen profession for that reason are two different things. Sanders had good years left, and could have kept playing somewhere if he wanted to. He could have worked through his agent to get traded from Detroit, or sat a year and become a free agent. And whether Croom was the right or wrong choice, no organization is going to make long term hiring decisions based on the whims of a 30 year old running back. If Sanders really did retire completely because of one OC hire, that says more about him than it does about Croom.
    I know for a fact that the 49ers tried to sign Sanders as a free agent at one point in time and Sanders didn't want to do it. I believe several other teams inquired as well. That tells me that Sanders was just done with the game for whatever reasons.


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  37. #37
    HumpDawgy's Avatar
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    I guess ol' Barry Sanders wasn't a good enough fit for the Croom Coast Offense.****


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  38. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by THE Bruce Dickinson View Post
    Ray was not a good coach, but at least Ray was grateful for the opportunity. It didn't work out for him here, and he and State respectfully parted ways. I wish Rick Ray all the best in the future, and am appreciative for what he tried to do here.

    Sly Croom has several myths surrounding his time here. Contrary to narrative, he didn't clean up the program. Croom had just as many or more players get into trouble than Jackie Sherril. The cherry on top was two players firing a gun on campus right before the 2008 season. Croom never wanted to be here in the first place either. He thought we were beneath him and his Alabama Alma Mater. Lastly, Croom went on a nationally televised "documentary" and blamed Mississippi State for his firing, insinuating that he never had the full support of the University. Give me Rick Ray any day. Croom was fired because we sucked every year he was here, and that includes 2007. We were the worst 8-5 team of all time
    Also note, that asshole talked about Bama the entire show about MSU. That tells you everything you need to know.


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  39. #39
    100% chance the lone upvote for state2013's posts is mstateglfr


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  40. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by RutherfordBHayes View Post
    Croom took over for the 2004 season, and we were bad. Every season was about the same. We never improved.

    We were infinitely better in 2008 (Mullen’s first) and went 5-6. That’s when I realized how terrible Croom really was.
    FYI, Mullen's 1st year was 2009. But you are correct, we were immediately and substantially better in year one of Mullen's tenure than we ever were under Croom. That man's "offense" got shutout 7 times in 5 seasons. We've been shutout once since then.


    Croom
    Year : Points Scored : Times shutout
    2004 : 173 : 1
    2005 : 153 : 2
    2006 : 221 : 2
    2007 : 279 : 1
    2008 : 183 : 1


    Mullen
    Year : Points Scored : Times shutout
    2009 : 307 : 0
    2010 : 377 : 0
    2011 : 329 : 0
    2012 : 383 : 0
    2013 : 360 : 0
    2014 : 480 : 0
    2015 : 447 : 0
    2016 : 395 : 0
    2017 : 416 : 0

    Moorhead
    Year : Points Scored : Times shutout
    2018 : 371 : 1


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