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  1. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by greenbean View Post
    Do you even Pinelake bro?
    What is it about Pinelake that makes you think their pastors don't have a hard job?
    ...Ole Miss fans do not believe in Jesus.
    Dawgstudent, 12-12-13


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  2. #42
    Hard to read Timothy and Titus, especially, and not recognize that Paul did a lot of pastoral “venting” about his opponents. A LOT of venting. It’s ok for pastors to vent.
    “I’m not going to take anything off the table at this point in time ... but I will tell you this,” Cohen began, “this person is going to have serious baseball experience as a head coach. This person is going to have made trips to Omaha, Nebraska. This person is going to have expertise in an area of the game and in all facets of the game. And this person is going to make our fan base very happy.” - Intense Bastard, April 5, 2018.


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  3. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by dickiedawg View Post
    What is it about Pinelake that makes you think their pastors don't have a hard job?
    I was a member before it was a Mega Church and know them, most are very well compensated relative to the work they put in.


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  4. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by greenbean View Post
    I was a member before it was a Mega Church and know them, most are very well compensated relative to the work they put in.
    It's pretty alarming, isn't it? They aren't alone either.


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  5. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by The Situation View Post
    It's pretty alarming, isn't it? They aren't alone either.
    Should all pastors work for free? who gets to define overpaid? Should we set it at fast food level, blue collar, white collar, CEO? I get the sentiment but practically speaking how does one establish clear boundaries on Pastor compensation, because I can tell you right now it’s set by the market just like other jobs.


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  6. #46

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    Quote Originally Posted by tatedog View Post
    Pastors vent really badly.
    In this instance, yes. When it comes to MSU sports, most pastors I have met become a "normal person" and vent with the best of them.


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  7. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by horshack View Post
    Should all pastors work for free? who gets to define overpaid? Should we set it at fast food level, blue collar, white collar, CEO? I get the sentiment but practically speaking how does one establish clear boundaries on Pastor compensation, because I can tell you right now it’s set by the market just like other jobs.
    Funny how capitalism has infiltrated so many non-profit type arenas, cough, college sports. It is what it is, although it shouldn't be.

    I do not have an answer to your question. To me, it just doesn't feel right.


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  8. #48
    To quote Supreme Court Justice Potter Stewart, "I know it when I see it." There a lot about Pine Lake that just doesn't pass the smell test for me.


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  9. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by preacher_dawg View Post
    and just be a normal person. Sorry, I can't voice this on any other social media or really much more people around me, so I guess you guys get my vent.
    My Uncle was a Baptist preacher. He was pretty much my Dad in my pre-teen years. He was a tireless worker and servant and never got the respect he deserved for some reason from the public but for those who knew him best were sure he went right straight to heaven when he died.

    He believed, as do I, that one is called to that life. You have to have a deep and patient soul and get your satisfaction from serving people and God because you will never get put upon a pedestal by the world.

    That is also why I have no respect for the rich evangelists. They wouldn't last a day in my Uncle's world.

    Just FYI, I am a Diest.


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  10. #50
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    God bless you brother Dawg. You have one congregation here that supports you.


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  11. #51
    As a Catholic I see this as your penitence. Since you don't have the opportunity for anonymous confession at your church let Sixpack be your confessional. As for your acts of contrition, say three Hail Mullins and one Dak's Prayer and everything will be all right.


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  12. #52
    Quote Originally Posted by horshack View Post
    Should all pastors work for free? who gets to define overpaid? Should we set it at fast food level, blue collar, white collar, CEO? I get the sentiment but practically speaking how does one establish clear boundaries on Pastor compensation, because I can tell you right now it’s set by the market just like other jobs.
    I'll say this about compensation for religious leaders... I don't really have an issue if a priest/pastor/preacher is doing relatively well for their area (meaning the equivalent of upper middle class, for lack of a better way to describe it). As others have mentioned, it's basically a 24-7, 365 job and it can be very demanding mentally, physically and emotionally.

    That being said, I do have a major issue with and complete lack of respect for those who are essentially using the pulpit to personally enrich themselves. Those that have fancy luxury cars and a giant house in a gated neighborhood or who think they need a private jet.

    On a semi-related note, can someone explain the allure of giant congregation mega churches to me? My church seats about 100 people (give or take) and I get antsy anytime it gets past 3/4 full. I can't imagine being happy in a church where there are a few hundred people at a service.


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  13. #53
    I don't quite get what a few people on here have against Pinelake. Chip is a great preacher. I don't even go to church there or live around there, but I listen to his sermons (and other preachers) while running. I assume a lot of people are drawn to the church and to God because of his preaching. I am sure there are other things about the church that attract people as well (music, facilities, youth, etc.) In turn, a lot of money comes into the church and he and the staff may be compensated well because of the numbers. I just do not see anything wrong with that.

    The only unforgivable thing Pinelake has done is have Hugh Freeze on stage****


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  14. #54

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    Quote Originally Posted by patdog View Post
    To quote Supreme Court Justice Potter Stewart, "I know it when I see it." There a lot about Pine Lake that just doesn't pass the smell test for me.
    My family is trying to decide on a Church home right now and I'm curious as to what doesn't pass the smell test for you. I'm not treating this decision lightly at all and I'm genuinely curious about why people think about Pine Lake the way they do. Is it actually based on a real experience, or facts, or just a general negative perception of "mega churches"?


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  15. #55

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    ...and to reply on topic. I'm obviously not a pastor, but I think I have a decent idea of what the position entails. Meaning that majority of the "job", especially depending on the size of the church, is not the preaching part but the CEO or at least General Manager duties. Think about all there is to manage; from building facilities, to different internal organizations like Sunday school and the little old ladies groups, and community events and philanthropic activities, to managing each staff member, etc. etc. THEN you have to study/pray and study/pray and study/pray some more to not only have the relationship with Jesus that you should, but to be able to teach a message EVERY week (and sometimes multiple messages a week). Add to that the congregation therapy needs and you have one tough day each and every day. Pastors are like a teacher, principal, super-independent, and therapist all in one. I don't think most pastors get compensated enough considering these things. Especially if they are legit and being good stewards of their compensation.


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  16. #56
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    I won’t pretend to speak for everyone

    Quote Originally Posted by FQDawg View Post
    On a semi-related note, can someone explain the allure of giant congregation mega churches to me?
    and I also won’t condemn anyone who likes one church over another. The allure for me is what is preached from the pulpit. The singing, the social functions, to me that is just additional opportunity to worship and serve. But if the message is from the gospel and speaks truth to me and strengthens my relationship with my savior then it doesn’t matter if I’m surrounded by 100 sinners or 1,000 sinners. We’re all in the same boat. I’m not a member at the local mega church, but go from time to time because I hear the gospel proclaimed there and it is done well. I also enjoy seeing it speak to others and witness it really change people. This happens at both large and small churches. And both large and small have those in the congregation that will sometimes make the church look less desirable based on their actions. You’ll never get away from that in a fallen world.


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  17. #57
    Quote Originally Posted by FQDawg View Post
    I'll say this about compensation for religious leaders... I don't really have an issue if a priest/pastor/preacher is doing relatively well for their area (meaning the equivalent of upper middle class, for lack of a better way to describe it). As others have mentioned, it's basically a 24-7, 365 job and it can be very demanding mentally, physically and emotionally.

    That being said, I do have a major issue with and complete lack of respect for those who are essentially using the pulpit to personally enrich themselves. Those that have fancy luxury cars and a giant house in a gated neighborhood or who think they need a private jet.

    On a semi-related note, can someone explain the allure of giant congregation mega churches to me? My church seats about 100 people (give or take) and I get antsy anytime it gets past 3/4 full. I can't imagine being happy in a church where there are a few hundred people at a service.

    My perception of mega church allure is social aspect, plus the ability to just kind of go to church without having to risk actually being known. Also, often those pastors preach uplifting messages so you can just walk away feeling good.


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  18. #58
    Quote Originally Posted by goindhoo View Post
    The only unforgivable thing Pinelake has done is have Hugh Freeze on stage****
    That right there tells you a LOT about the pastor and church.


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  19. #59
    Quote Originally Posted by horshack View Post
    My perception of mega church allure is social aspect, plus the ability to just kind of go to church without having to risk actually being known. Also, often those pastors preach uplifting messages so you can just walk away feeling good.
    Yep, meet some friends, feel good gospel, and no real accountability, basically all the great parts of Christianity but none of the hard parts.....Christian Culture


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  20. #60
    If you believe (or find the most value) in preaching being the most important thing for your spiritual health and give major points for good orators who bring uplifting messages then it may be a fit. If you believe that small groups are important and critical to spiritual growth, it seems to be very difficult to get plugged in with the Pinelake model. I think that expository preaching is the key to real growth and that if there is in fact any truth and power in the Bible and what it has to say, then the best way to unleash that power is by presenting what is in there so that people will know what it says and can be moved by it.

    Then, you see the satellite model where they "feel led" to plant churches in areas that are so spiritually destitute that they barely have 5 or 6 churches to choose from in the area*** and that grinds my gears a bit. Not from a competitive perspective, but if you want to convince me that you were "led" to plant a church, let me see it land in the most impoverished area in your metro, not out in front of obvious growth (and wealth). Of course I'm old and cynical.

    I'm convinced that I could stand up a church in an expected population growth path, get a good speaker, get a good band and fill it up every Sunday while having very little positive impact on on the community.

    PS: I also can't understand why he would let Freeze preach multiple times when the guy was so obviously (to many) of the character that was eventually revealed. Discernment was lacking there.


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  21. #61

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    Quote Originally Posted by patdog View Post
    That right there tells you a LOT about the pastor and church.
    I'm pretty sure Freeze had a lot of people fooled back then. Unless you have some insider info, I think it's unfair to judge a church or pastor on their decision to have a guest speaker that was less than honest about their qualifications to speak to the congregation. Now if they invited him back now, I would certainly question the decision based on the fact that he has proven himself to be someone that cannot be trusted. It's one thing to extend grace to someone that has been redeemed, and Hugh may be that person now who knows, but you don't put him in a position to effect your credibility anymore.

    Other than that...anything else? Serious question.


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  22. #62

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Situation View Post
    Yep, meet some friends, feel good gospel, and no real accountability, basically all the great parts of Christianity but none of the hard parts.....Christian Culture

    What are the "hard parts" that non mega churches have?


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  23. #63
    I think it's mainly from people who haven't been to the church, or who haven't heard Chip preach. In my experience, most people who haven't been have simply heard it's really big, so they assume "mega church" and if they had heard Chip even once, they wouldn't put him on the same planet as a Joel Osteen or whoever.

    Chip is a huge Bulldog, loves to hunt, lives in Flowood, and drives an F-150. He's about as down the middle typical SPS'er as you would find, and I'm about 100% sure he would be posting here if God hadn't yanked him up about 30 years ago.


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  24. #64
    Being active in small groups, allowing yourself to be held accountable, looking headlong into the Gospel and deciding that it means something that is worth changing for, being vulnerable and known and willing to walk through life with others, regardless of how hard it gets. Real life = hard part.


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  25. #65
    Quote Originally Posted by horshack View Post
    Being active in small groups, allowing yourself to be held accountable, looking headlong into the Gospel and deciding that it means something that is worth changing for, being vulnerable and known and willing to walk through life with others, regardless of how hard it gets. Real life = hard part.
    And a real commitment to mission/serving


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  26. #66

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    I'm only aware of one time he preached but there may be some other event I'm not aware of.

    Why would you not choose areas of the state that are growing to plant satellite campus'? Growth means that these area have the best chance of multiplying the message of the gospel. You go to the desolate areas to minister and help through events that help those poor communities where needed.

    I do understand the basis of your point though and that's why I'm not jumping into any church with both feet without understanding their true motives. Pinelake says they have three main objectives... To learn about Jesus, to live like Jesus teaches us to, and to lead others to Jesus. So I guess I'm looking for evidence that the church is not practicing what they preach, or worse yet, doing something under the table that makes them a total scam.


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  27. #67
    Quote Originally Posted by FQDawg View Post
    I'll say this about compensation for religious leaders... I don't really have an issue if a priest/pastor/preacher is doing relatively well for their area (meaning the equivalent of upper middle class, for lack of a better way to describe it). As others have mentioned, it's basically a 24-7, 365 job and it can be very demanding mentally, physically and emotionally.

    That being said, I do have a major issue with and complete lack of respect for those who are essentially using the pulpit to personally enrich themselves. Those that have fancy luxury cars and a giant house in a gated neighborhood or who think they need a private jet.

    On a semi-related note, can someone explain the allure of giant congregation mega churches to me? My church seats about 100 people (give or take) and I get antsy anytime it gets past 3/4 full. I can't imagine being happy in a church where there are a few hundred people at a service.
    This is sort of where I am at. If I were going to pick a measure, a reasonable target to me would be to set the preacher compensation at the median family income of the congregation, assuming the wife also officially or unofficially works for the church. If the wife works outside the church, I'd probably nose that target down. It just seems off to me for a congregation to be paying a preacher to make more than 75% of the families in the congregation.


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  28. #68
    Quote Originally Posted by johnson86-1 View Post
    This is sort of where I am at. If I were going to pick a measure, a reasonable target to me would be to set the preacher compensation at the median family income of the congregation, assuming the wife also officially or unofficially works for the church. If the wife works outside the church, I'd probably nose that target down. It just seems off to me for a congregation to be paying a preacher to make more than 75% of the families in the congregation.
    This


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  29. #69

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    Quote Originally Posted by horshack View Post
    Being active in small groups, allowing yourself to be held accountable, looking headlong into the Gospel and deciding that it means something that is worth changing for, being vulnerable and known and willing to walk through life with others, regardless of how hard it gets. Real life = hard part.
    I've been to the smallest of small churches and the biggest of big churches and I see what you describe taking place in both, but also lacking in both. Has nothing to do with the size of the church and everything to do with each individuals spiritual health. If I'm being real, I think I've seen more hypocrites (for lack of a better term) in the smaller churches than big ones though.


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  30. #70
    Quote Originally Posted by JML105 View Post
    I'm only aware of one time he preached but there may be some other event I'm not aware of.

    Why would you not choose areas of the state that are growing to plant satellite campus'? Growth means that these area have the best chance of multiplying the message of the gospel. You go to the desolate areas to minister and help through events that help those poor communities where needed.

    I do understand the basis of your point though and that's why I'm not jumping into any church with both feet without understanding their true motives. Pinelake says they have three main objectives... To learn about Jesus, to live like Jesus teaches us to, and to lead others to Jesus. So I guess I'm looking for evidence that the church is not practicing what they preach, or worse yet, doing something under the table that makes them a total scam.
    We are in the South. There's some serious gospel saturation going on. So, it appears they are chasing money when going to wealthy areas, areas that have more access to information in general.

    I understand a satellite campus if a majority of your members are driving from a certain area. But that's not really the definition of a church-plant.


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  31. #71
    *
    Last edited by Junction John; 10-09-2019 at 03:21 PM. Reason: delete


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  32. #72

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Situation View Post
    We are in the South. There's some serious gospel saturation going on. So, it appears they are chasing money when going to wealthy areas, areas that have more access to information in general.

    I understand a satellite campus if a majority of your members are driving from a certain area. But that's not really the definition of a church-plant.
    So Pinelake's official satellite campus's are in Clinton, Gluckstadt, Starkville, and Oxford with Starkville and Oxford catering to the college crowd. Gluckstadt campus is obviously planted in an area of rapid growth among mainly young middle class families. So counting on college kids and over extended young families to make Pinelake and its pastors rich? I'm not seeing your point adding up here.


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  33. #73
    Jesus didn't typically focus on the wealthy over the poor. BTW, I had similar feelings about declining Jackson churches suddenly feeling "led" to plant a church right out in front of affluent growth, churches that flee their location when the complexion changes a little rather than allow the church to change with the community and continue to minister there.

    Also, I've never heard anything but good things about Chip and that stretches back to folks who knew him well in college, so that's saying something! The church simply doesn't appeal to me. And he let Freeze speak there!


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  34. #74
    Quote Originally Posted by JML105 View Post
    So Pinelake's official satellite campus's are in Clinton, Gluckstadt, Starkville, and Oxford with Starkville and Oxford catering to the college crowd. Gluckstadt campus is obviously planted in an area of rapid growth among mainly young middle class families. So counting on college kids and over extended young families to make Pinelake and its pastors rich? I'm not seeing your point adding up here.
    Try it out and judge yourself, it certainly could be a good fit for many people.


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  35. #75
    Quote Originally Posted by JML105 View Post
    So Pinelake's official satellite campus's are in Clinton, Gluckstadt, Starkville, and Oxford with Starkville and Oxford catering to the college crowd.
    This is an honest question because I had never heard of "church planting" or "satellite campuses" until the last year or so and only thanks to this board. If Pinelake (or any church) is located in, say, Jackson and then creates a new congregation in, say, Starkville, does any of the money donated by the Starkville congregation end up back at the "home" church in Jackson? Or would it all stay in Starkville?


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  36. #76
    Chipster has come a LOOOOOONNNNNNG way since those Duggar days in August '85.
    “I’m not going to take anything off the table at this point in time ... but I will tell you this,” Cohen began, “this person is going to have serious baseball experience as a head coach. This person is going to have made trips to Omaha, Nebraska. This person is going to have expertise in an area of the game and in all facets of the game. And this person is going to make our fan base very happy.” - Intense Bastard, April 5, 2018.


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  37. #77

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    Quote Originally Posted by FQDawg View Post
    This is an honest question because I had never heard of "church planting" or "satellite campuses" until the last year or so and only thanks to this board. If Pinelake (or any church) is located in, say, Jackson and then creates a new congregation in, say, Starkville, does any of the money donated by the Starkville congregation end up back at the "home" church in Jackson? Or would it all stay in Starkville?
    I'm fairly certain that tithes all go into one fund to maintain the organization as a whole; i.e. facilities, utility bills, staff's salaries, lord's supper supplies, goldfish and crayons for the preschoolers, etc. There are different offerings that are for specific projects, events, missions, etc. However, I believe that the church finance committee can decide to appropriate funds as needed and where needed at any given time.

    This is a good question to ask because one of my biggest reservations on choosing a church is how they manage money and how they go about "asking" for money. If every other sermon is about tithing and they seem to be driven by money matters, then I become highly skeptical. I believe money is one of the most (if not the most) taught on topics by Jesus.


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  38. #78
    Quote Originally Posted by FQDawg View Post
    This is an honest question because I had never heard of "church planting" or "satellite campuses" until the last year or so and only thanks to this board. If Pinelake (or any church) is located in, say, Jackson and then creates a new congregation in, say, Starkville, does any of the money donated by the Starkville congregation end up back at the "home" church in Jackson? Or would it all stay in Starkville?
    I'm sure it would, just like anything else. For most denominations, money gets kicked up the chain to whatever association the church is affiliated with.


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  39. #79
    For those that know Pinelake and what expository preaching is (preaching through books of the Bible), do they practice it, or is it something like 5 ways to improve your life?


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  40. #80
    I heard an old man once say about compensation (not specifically about pastors mind you) that "If you pay peanuts, you shouldn't expect anything but circus animals." Seems relevant.


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