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  1. #1

    Buy/Sell: Croom>JoeMo....

    I hate to say it but I think I must buy. Croom was a special kind of awful. Yes I remember the maine but he inherited a cratered program fresh on three years probation that he utterly failed to elevate, but did manage to somehow organically raise it to win 8 games one season. Joe was handed a program fresh off 9 straight bowl appearances, consistently ranked, a newly expanded stadium, good fan support, a team stocked with NFL talent on D, an experienced offense with a veteran QB and he managed to ruin it in less than two years.


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  2. #2
    Beerbully's Avatar
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    Easy Buy. Despite his record on the field, Croom brought order and discipline. And he beat Alabama--twice.
    The game is always bigger than us, and it's always teaching us.


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  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by Beerbully View Post
    Easy Buy. Despite his record on the field, Croom brought order and discipline. And he beat Alabama--twice.
    Bama in the mid 2000’s is the essentially what Kentucky is right now. Granted, not even sure Joe would’ve even beaten those Shula teams after Saturday.


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  4. #4
    Croom was worse schematically but he was an infinitely better head coach.

    The players respected him & he had discipline.

    Both are awful, but due to how Croom ran the program, after 5 years Mullen had something to work with. If we keep Moorhead for 5 years, the next coach will have a complete dumpster fire to deal with


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  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Beerbully View Post
    Easy Buy. Despite his record on the field, Croom brought order and discipline. And he beat Alabama--twice.
    There's some serious revisionist history going here. How many players were arrested during the Croom era? It was like double digits.


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  6. #6
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    Click image for larger version. 

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  7. #7
    Good lord. Moorhead is terrible, but sell all day long. Some of you have short memories.


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  8. #8
    Sell. Croom = Moorhead.


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  9. #9
    It’s sad we’re at a point where we can legitimately debate this.

    Croom may have been a better “mentor to young men” than JoMo... but he was a horrible head football coach. Joe may sound like a better x’s and o’s guy but he obviously doesn’t connect with the players as well as Croom and has no control over the team. Maybe if you could mix the best of both you’d get a decent coach - but they both appear to be overly stubborn to the point they’ll both end up being coaches fired by MSU. So I’m not sure even a coach with the best qualities from both would survive as a head coach.


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  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by patdog View Post
    Good lord. Moorhead is terrible, but sell all day long. Some of you have short memories.
    For me its a question of who to date did the most with what they were given. Croom was given a sow's ear and didn't do much to transform it into anything else. Argument could be made that their wasn't anywhere to go for him but up and I get that. Joe was given a silk purse (in MSU terms) and proceeded to turn it into a sows ear. It really is a sad day I suppose when we are left to debate who did it worse.


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  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Beerbully View Post
    Easy Buy. Despite his record on the field, Croom brought order and discipline. And he beat Alabama--twice.
    Yeah, these arguments are crazy, but there's always somebody willing to make them. Croom had discipline problems of his own, and Alabama sucked back then.

    Three's a reason almost every program Croom beat ended up firing their coach.


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  12. #12
    SixPack's Official Farmer DesotoCountyDawg's Avatar
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    Nobrainer sell. I think the anger over the current situation is hindering some memories. Croom was way worse.








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  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by kired View Post
    Maybe if you could mix the best of both you’d get a decent coach - but they both appear to be overly stubborn to the point they’ll both end up being coaches fired by MSU. So I’m not sure even a coach with the best qualities from both would survive as a head coach.
    Croom/Moorhead = Mullen ?


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  14. #14
    This is like debating which smell would be better in your house.. rat piss or dog crap.

    Moorhead inherited the '39 Yankees compared to what Croom stepped into. Croom went 3-8, 3-8 his first two years but Moorhead wouldn't have done any better and probably wouldn't have won the game over #20 Florida.


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  15. #15
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    Totally and completely agree with this and your other comments. Croom got 5 years and 10 SEC wins. At this point I doubt very seriously Moorhead will ever make it to 10 SEC wins, and he's already half way there.

    Croom was worse schematically but he was an infinitely better head coach.
    I've polished a seat in every SEC football stadium with my butt.

    J_e M__rhead - Where's the O?


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  16. #16
    Beerbully's Avatar
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    And he sent some home, too. Again, he inherited a mess, but he dealt with the problems. And he beat Alabama--twice.
    The game is always bigger than us, and it's always teaching us.


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  17. #17
    Beerbully's Avatar
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    I'm not saying nothing happened under Croom's watch, but he inherited a program fraught with discipline issues. He had to yank some scholarships in a couple of cases, but he did his best to restore order. And Bama may have been down by their standards in those years, but they were still Bama.
    The game is always bigger than us, and it's always teaching us.


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  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Beerbully View Post
    I'm not saying nothing happened under Croom's watch, but he inherited a program fraught with discipline issues. He had to yank some scholarships in a couple of cases, but he did his best to restore order. And Bama may have been down by their standards in those years, but they were still Bama.
    Croom was quick to blame Sherrill's discipline problems and get rid of Sherrill's old players. But he didn't do the same thing with his own. Sylvester Croom was a hypocrite in that way.

    And Bama sucked in those days. They went 6-6 both years we beat them. In 2006 they barely beat Hawaii and in 2007 they lost to Louisiana Monroe.


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  19. #19
    Getting Croomed was an actual term the media used for coaches that were fired for losing to Croom.
    Until Moorhead gets to that level of shit, Croom is worse.


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  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by travis View Post
    There's some serious revisionist history going here. How many players were arrested during the Croom era? It was like double digits.
    No kidding. And it wasn’t just driving with suspended license type shit either. We had one guy firing a pistol on campus.


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  21. #21
    Who cares they both suck.


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  22. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Beerbully View Post
    Easy Buy. Despite his record on the field, Croom brought order and discipline. And he beat Alabama--twice.
    Croom also beat Nick Saban. I know he beat Nick Saban with Mike Shula's players but he still beat Nick Saban.


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  23. #23
    Croom's players got into a gun battle on campus. Give me a break.


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  24. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by travis View Post
    There's some serious revisionist history going here. How many players were arrested during the Croom era? It was like double digits.
    Absolutely. Croom had more players arrested in 5 years than Sherrill had in 13. The character of this teams was no better than anything before or after his tenure.


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  25. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by mstateglfr View Post
    Getting Croomed was an actual term the media used for coaches that were fired for losing to Croom.
    Until Moorhead gets to that level of shit, Croom is worse.
    Maybe, but I don't see Joe fielding a team that will ever be able to pull one of those wins off.


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  26. #26
    It’s like people didn’t even watch the games, they just watched the 30 for 30 and bought what Croom said of himself.

    Croom was a horrendous coach. No order, no discipline, no coherent strategy. We had a delay of game on the first offensive play of the season! We had delays of game penalties nearly every single game. The man took off for vacation a while month a year. Where were you people.

    Croom is easily the worst MSU coach since integration. Easily. He was horrible. Get out of here with this nonsense.


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  27. #27
    Beerbully's Avatar
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    Beating two 6-6 Bama teams, including one coached by Saban, while trying to breathe life into a dead program goes a long way in my book. Yes, Croom had to deal with some knuckleheads on his watch, but he was a far better head coach than Moorhead. If he had the talent and situation to start with that JoMo did, his legacy would have been different.


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  28. #28
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    If a legitimate comparison can be made between them, then Vroom Croom will be Moorhead’s limo driver out of Starkville.

    Shmuley’s right. November 2020.


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  29. #29
    I haven't heard stories about Moorhead falling asleep on recruiting trips or driving himself around in a golf cart for non-medical reasons, so by a nose I'll go with Moorhead.


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  30. #30

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    Sell in mass quantities - there was some talent at MSU when Croom arrived & he was determined to play his guys. Croom ran off too many players. He could have been mediocre if adapted his offense somewhat for Omar. Omar may have been a Heisman contender in Mullen's offense. Croom also had more discipline issues than JWS or Mullen. It also appears than Moorhead is recruiting at a much higher level than Croom although he may have HELL holding this class together. Moorhead is just a moron is preparation, discipline, & possibly conditioning where Croom was incompetent in every area of the job.


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  31. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by Beerbully View Post
    Beating two 6-6 Bama teams, including one coached by Saban, while trying to breathe life into a dead program goes a long way in my book. Yes, Croom had to deal with some knuckleheads on his watch, but he was a far better head coach than Moorhead. If he had the talent and situation to start with that JoMo did, his legacy would have been different.
    Stop defending that guy. Croom's legacy is failure, as it rightfully should be.


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  32. #32
    My my...how people forget just how truly terrible Croom was...

    Coach Joe has royally shit the bed for sure, but come on.. He is no where near Croom bad.

    In case anyone has forgotten, or they've eaten up the BS positive love affair the media had with Coach Croom:

    WL and Offensive ranking:
    2004: 3-8, 117/120
    2005: 3-8, 114/119
    2006: 3-9, 97/119
    2007: 8-5, 97/120
    2008: 4-8, 116/120


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  33. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by Haywood Jablomi View Post
    My my...how people forget just how truly terrible Croom was...

    Coach Joe has royally shit the bed for sure, but come on.. He is no where near Croom bad.

    In case anyone has forgotten, or they've eaten up the BS positive love affair the media had with Coach Croom:

    WL and Offensive ranking:
    2004: 3-8, 117/120
    2005: 3-8, 114/119
    2006: 3-9, 97/119
    2007: 8-5, 97/120
    2008: 4-8, 116/120
    For real. If Croom coached this team, we’d be 1-5.

    Croom did nothing mediocre. His coaching was abysmal in every aspect.

    EDIT: And it’s worse than losing 8 games per season. It’s how badly we were beaten in those 40 (FORTY) losses.
    Last edited by RutherfordBHayes; 10-14-2019 at 02:52 PM.


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  34. #34
    Beerbully's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drebin View Post
    Stop defending that guy. Croom's legacy is failure, as it rightfully should be.
    I'll defend him here, in this direct comparison to Moorhead. I never saw a Croom team get two delay of games on its first offensive series and fall behind 21-0 in the first quarter! I never saw him create a QB controversy and then further mismanage it the way Moorhead has done. Croom's pedigree as an All-American and national championship player alone made him a far better head coach than this impostor we've hired now, and I don't have to wait four years to come to that conclusion.
    The game is always bigger than us, and it's always teaching us.


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  35. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by Beerbully View Post
    I'll defend him here, in this direct comparison to Moorhead. I never saw a Croom team get two delay of games on its first offensive series and fall behind 21-0 in the first quarter! I never saw him create a QB controversy and then further mismanage it the way Moorhead has done. Croom's pedigree as an All-American and national championship player alone made him a far better head coach than this impostor we've hired now, and I don't have to wait four years to come to that conclusion.
    Croom was a center. And Croom did all of those things you listed above. He also lost to Maine, in case you forgot.

    I'm not defending Moorhead. But Croom is the biggest stain on an MSU football program full of them.


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  36. #36
    Beerbully's Avatar
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    That's okay, Dreb. I understand your position. We may not agree here, but that's the nature of opinion.
    The game is always bigger than us, and it's always teaching us.


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  37. #37
    Croom absolutely got down 21-0 in the first quarter. Remember the 2008 Egg Bowl? His final game it was 24-0 in the first. We had 37 TOTAL yards in that game by the way. He also completely created a QB controversy between Wesley Carroll and Tyson Lee in the 2008 season. After Carroll played pretty well (by Croom QB standards) in 2007 and we won eight games, all of a sudden he starts splitting time with Lee. Which led to four wins in 2008. I don’t care how good of a player he was, Croom was a terrible coach, full stop.


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  38. #38
    Beerbully's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FlotownDawg View Post
    Croom absolutely got down 21-0 in the first quarter. Remember the 2008 Egg Bowl? His final game it was 24-0 in the first. We had 37 TOTAL yards in that game by the way. He also completely created a QB controversy between Wesley Carroll and Tyson Lee in the 2008 season. After Carroll played pretty well (by Croom QB standards) in 2007 and we won eight games, all of a sudden he starts splitting time with Lee. Which led to four wins in 2008. I don’t care how good of a player he was, Croom was a terrible coach, full stop.
    Okay. If nothing else, I've learned to check my facts closer before I post. I have to take my hat off to you and some of the others here who have kept me straight in that regard today.

    But doggone it, I stand by my contention that Sylvester Croom knew more about football than Joe Moorhead ever will. That's my opinion, and I have absolutely no facts to support it. Tear it down, but please don't ruin it.
    The game is always bigger than us, and it's always teaching us.


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  39. #39
    Croom was the worst coach in our programs history. Nothing he did was good. Even the things people here think was positive from Croom like mentoring young men and discipline was a fallacy. People only think that because that's what Croom told people he was doing. He did an awful job at everything.


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  40. #40
    Sell, I just chuckled remembering losing opponent coaches getting "Croomed". God he was awful.


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