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  1. #1

    Grateful that Howland brought us out of the dark ages, BUT...

    This whole two steps forward, two steps backward thing can be pretty frustrating too. Just when it feels like we have turned the corner, we suffer a setback, sometimes more than one.

    Our margin for error the rest of the way is incredibly thin. And I feel like missing the tourney with this team would be a definite failure.

    Weíre not cooked yet, but we do not have a tourney resume right now and we only have so many more opportunities to bolster that.


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  2. #2
    Maybe he will retire with dignity....his downfall this year is not having a point guard.


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  3. #3
    mcdawg22's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Leeshouldveflanked View Post
    Maybe he will retire with dignity....his downfall this year is not having a point guard.
    I get itís such an important position, but with the talent on the team is it unreasonable to expect more? Richard Williams got us to a Final Four without a point guard


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  4. #4

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    Quote Originally Posted by Leeshouldveflanked View Post
    Maybe he will retire with dignity....his downfall this year is not having a point guard.
    I donít think it has anything to do with a point guard. I just think we are an immature team. Thatís why we look really great some times and then do stuff that makes you scratch your head. I mean we had 5 turnovers today that were just dumb and no call for it. Perry getting a technical no call for it. Carter missing an uncontested layup no call for it. Having a ball hit us in our hands 5 times on one defensive series and not coming up with it allowing Oklahoma to score no call for it. Thatís not coaching. Thatís on the players.


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  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by muddawgs View Post
    I donít think it has anything to do with a point guard. I just think we are an immature team. Thatís why we look really great some times and then do stuff that makes you scratch your head. I mean we had 5 turnovers today that were just dumb and no call for it. Perry getting a technical no call for it. Carter missing an uncontested layup no call for it. Having a ball hit us in our hands 5 times on one defensive series and not coming up with it allowing Oklahoma to score no call for it. Thatís not coaching. Thatís on the players.
    Uuuhhhmmm, sorry I completely disagree with you. That is 100% coaching. These types of things happen during practice, preseason, and early in the season. By this point, the team should be coached well enough that they don't do this. In comparison, Vic's freshmen (or freshwomen, however it's suppossed to be) are playing much cleaner than the men's upperclass. That's just simply good coaching, and Howland needs to get the senseless stuff cleaned up, and soon.


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  6. #6
    I have a feeling we're setting ourselves up to where we have to win the SEC tournament. Which then, we'll get to the championship game and lose one at the buzzer. Probably to Calipari and the Cats.


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  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by preacher_dawg View Post
    Uuuhhhmmm, sorry I completely disagree with you. That is 100% coaching. These types of things happen during practice, preseason, and early in the season. By this point, the team should be coached well enough that they don't do this.
    Yes. Itís coaching. Iím speculating we get nothing much from brooks or McCray. You donít see other teams banging down our door to interview those guys.


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  8. #8
    Uhh... our fresh women make lots of mistakes and mistakes. But in the Womenís game there is still a huge difference in our players and most of the SEC, and they overcome it, primarily because the womenís game is a ďteamĒ game. There is no discernible gap between our men and Oklahomaís men because even with 4 and 5 star male basketball players, they are all playing for a chance to get to the show, therefore, ďIĒ ball rears itís ugly head far more in the menís game. Everybody wants to show their individual skills when they can but they are up against players who are slightly less talented or just as talented. Some players can be ďreachedĒ by their coach. Some can be ďcoachedĒ by their coach. There is a difference. And it is why I quit watching these guys play. Well, that, and I donít need the stress.


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  9. #9
    Loss today didn't hurt our resume one bit. Win 11 in the SEC and we'll get in.


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  10. #10
    We better make dang sure one of those 11 wins are either UF or UK if we are to have a shot.

    This team should be 16-3, at worst now.
    To much talent on this team to be 12-7.


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  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by DAWG61 View Post
    Loss today didn't hurt our resume one bit. Win 11 in the SEC and we'll get in.
    I donít think 11 is going to be enough. That means we are going to be sorely lacking on quality wins.


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  12. #12
    Yep. That would make State 20-11 overall. That has NIT written all over it if just 2 upsets occur in mid-major tourneys.


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  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by bruiser View Post
    Uhh... our fresh women make lots of mistakes and mistakes. But in the Womenís game there is still a huge difference in our players and most of the SEC, and they overcome it, primarily because the womenís game is a ďteamĒ game. There is no discernible gap between our men and Oklahomaís men because even with 4 and 5 star male basketball players, they are all playing for a chance to get to the show, therefore, ďIĒ ball rears itís ugly head far more in the menís game. Everybody wants to show their individual skills when they can but they are up against players who are slightly less talented or just as talented. Some players can be ďreachedĒ by their coach. Some can be ďcoachedĒ by their coach. There is a difference. And it is why I quit watching these guys play. Well, that, and I donít need the stress.
    This long overused narrative that men's basketball is individual and women's basketball is team has to die soon. Its shocking now often its repeated, but I'm pretty sure that's just because so many dont actually understand what is happening in the court.
    Ignorance is a common reason for perpetuating incorrect narratives.

    You did manage to have a good point when you mentioned the talent gap in women's play is greater than men's, so mistakes arent as amplified in women's.


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  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by bruiser View Post
    Yep. That would make State 20-11 overall. That has NIT written all over it if just 2 upsets occur in mid-major tourneys.
    Yep, back to back 1 point road losses where winning EITHER would have given us a quadrant 1 win. Amazing how one basket in either game would have changed the complexion of this season. Yes, we can technically still make the tourney but we would have to play out of our minds down the stretch of the SEC season for it to happen. I just don't think we are capable of doing that, especially on the road.


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  15. #15

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    Marcus Bullard begs to differ


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  16. #16
    Why is there a group of our fan base that is willing to cut Howland slack no matter what? After every loss, there are people that get on here and explain some reason why everything is okay, and all we need to do is ____________ the rest of the season to make the tournament. What has he done to earn so much loyalty?

    He’s getting so much rope because of how terrible we were before him, and because it would be tough for us to do better than him. I get it. We should be happy to be mediocre with a ceiling of barely making the tournament.


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  17. #17
    Because lining up to sign a petition demanding his firing mid season is a tiny bit rash? Just a guess.


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  18. #18

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    Or 1 dumb technical foul agains Oklahoma.


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  19. #19
    Guess the same could be said for every poster who continually bitches after every loss. The woman's team loses a game and posters are complaining about how Vic coached. Not defending Howland but it's as you say, but also true of the opposite, happens after every loss no matter the MSU sport.


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  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by mstateglfr View Post
    This long overused narrative that men's basketball is individual and women's basketball is team has to die soon. Its shocking now often its repeated, but I'm pretty sure that's just because so many dont actually understand what is happening in the court.
    Ignorance is a common reason for perpetuating incorrect narratives.

    You did manage to have a good point when you mentioned the talent gap in women's play is greater than men's, so mistakes arent as amplified in women's.
    This is absolutely true. The difference in the games is talent differential. So mistakes in the womenís game usually donít matter be the margin is so much wider as opposed to the menís game weíre talent is relatively even. I really donít get why our fanbase canít or wonít understand that or why they have such an awful basketball IQ but man they do.

    The menís game is very fast paced and that probably contributes to why our fanbase just does not get basketball and enjoys the much much slower easier to understand womenís game.


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  21. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by Rayburn8 View Post
    This is absolutely true. The difference in the games is talent differential. So mistakes in the women’s game usually don’t matter be the margin is so much wider as opposed to the men’s game we’re talent is relatively even. I really don’t get why our fanbase can’t or won’t understand that or why they have such an awful basketball IQ but man they do.

    The men’s game is very fast paced and that probably contributes to why our fanbase just does not get basketball and enjoys the much much slower easier to understand women’s game.
    To the last paragraph- yup, nailed it.


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  22. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Rayburn8 View Post
    This is absolutely true. The difference in the games is talent differential. So mistakes in the womenís game usually donít matter be the margin is so much wider as opposed to the menís game weíre talent is relatively even. I really donít get why our fanbase canít or wonít understand that or why they have such an awful basketball IQ but man they do.

    The menís game is very fast paced and that probably contributes to why our fanbase just does not get basketball and enjoys the much much slower easier to understand womenís game.
    I think everyone on both sides of the argument makes the issue more complicated than it actually is.

    The men have been up and down for years with their one NCAA appearance resulting in an immediate loss to Liberty. The women are currently in a rebuilding year and are still in the Top 10.

    That alone is why people give the women the benefit of the doubt and get frustrated by the men.


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  23. #23
    That should show you how much easier it is to win in WBB than men's when we are in a rebuilding year and still able to hold a top 10 ranking.


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  24. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by DAWG61 View Post
    That should show you how much easier it is to win in WBB than men's when we are in a rebuilding year and still able to hold a top 10 ranking.
    Yeah I don’t buy that at all. There are three times as many SEC women’s teams in the Top 25 than men’s teams. You’re very much short selling what Vic has done by suggesting something like that. We were Rick Ray bad when he took over.

    I’m not saying Howland has an easy job, but come on. The reason the women are rebuilding and still in the Top 10 is because we have an elite coach and are recruiting at an elite level.


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  25. #25
    Vic is a HOF coach and what he's accomplished here is elite but there's an ocean's difference in parity between men's basketball and women's. Loyola, VCU and George Mason have made final fours in MBB in the last decade. That type of parity doesn't exist in WBB. That's a fact unarguable.


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  26. #26
    BiscuitEater's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Leeshouldveflanked View Post
    Maybe he will retire with dignity....his downfall this year is not having a point guard.
    He has 'serviceable' point guards. What he doesn't have is an offense.
    Robbie Faulk .. To your point, I think MSU will have 49 scholarship players from Mississippi on next year's roster and Ole Miss will have 19. So much for 'Mississippi Made.'


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  27. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by DAWG61 View Post
    Vic is a HOF coach and what he's accomplished here is elite but there's an ocean's difference in parity between men's basketball and women's. Loyola, VCU and George Mason have made final fours in MBB in the last decade. That type of parity doesn't exist in WBB. That's a fact unarguable.
    I agree that it doesn't have the parity that MBB does but Vic has miraculously jumped us from being among the very large group of teams that never have much of any chance to beating any elite teams to being in the group of elite teams that very few teams have a chance to beat. That's a huge accomplishment.


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  28. #28
    Not diminishing Vic's accomplishments in any way. When he retires we should build him a statue.


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  29. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by MSUDC11 View Post
    The men have been down for years.
    FIFY
    ...Ole Miss fans do not believe in Jesus.
    Dawgstudent, 12-12-13


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