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  1. #1
    Cleveland Steamer missouridawg's Avatar
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    Anyone else hearing that Congress

    Is going to vote on changing up the PPP payback period and allocations? I read on LinkedIN that they were looking at changing it from 8 weeks to 24 weeks on the judgement period, as well as changing the “use for payroll” portion from 75% to 25%.


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  2. #2
    tenureplan's Avatar
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    If true, makes me wish I would have started an LLC


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  3. #3
    It’s going to happen. Only when, not if.


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  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by DogStuckAtUM View Post
    It’s going to happen. Only when, not if.
    Yup.

    The summary is don't make any concrete decisions. Be prepared to be flexible. 8 weeks will be extended. 75/25 modified.

    Most importantly, if you are an owner, likely tighter restrictions on your compensation. You likely won't be able use the funds to juice your prorated wages over what you took last year.


    Wahoo McDaniel | Chris McDaniel Yes | No

  5. #5
    OK, I know of a business with three locations. They were deemed "essential' and haven't (and never were going to) close any location for even 1 min. due to Covid 19. They applied for and got a PPP loan. In their case how are they suppose to use the money so they don't have to pay it back ?


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  6. #6

    I’m guessing

    Quote Originally Posted by thatsbaseball View Post
    OK, I know of a business with three locations. They were deemed "essential' and haven't (and never were going to) close any location for even 1 min. due to Covid 19. They applied for and got a PPP loan. In their case how are they suppose to use the money so they don't have to pay it back ?
    As long as the amount they paid in payroll during the time equals or exceeds the ppp money, they don’t have to pay anything g back. Is that right?


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  7. #7
    That is correct. It is supposedly meant to keep businesses from laying off their staff. 75% of the money has to have been used for payroll. The other 25% could be used for other business expenses like monthly lease etc.

    If they took this money and laid off staff and invested into the company they will have to pay the loan back. The people that I know that got it were give a pretty conservative amount that easily was used for payroll only.


    Wahoo McDaniel | Chris McDaniel Yes | No

  8. #8
    It didn't "keep them from laying off" anyone. They never were going to lay off anyone. It looks to me like the gov't is simply making the payroll for a company that didn't need the money.


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  9. #9
    SixPack's Official Farmer DesotoCountyDawg's Avatar
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    We weren’t either but the payroll money helped us so we could allocate our original “payroll” money to somewhere else needed.








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  10. #10
    Correct, crappy situation. Sucks for companies that were deemed “non-essential” to have to close, but giving money to some and not to others wouldnt be right either. Should’ve given money directly to individuals at some percentage of their lost pay like England. Of course that wouldn’t have benefited the big corporations, so that wasn’t an option.


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  11. #11
    That’s a massive change this late in a 600B+ program. I bet the majority of the first wave of funding recipients have already allocated all of the funds.


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  12. #12
    Cleveland Steamer missouridawg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 57stratdawg View Post
    That’s a massive change this late in a 600B+ program. I bet the majority of the first wave of funding recipients have already allocated all of the funds.
    count me in this boat. When I got the money, I laid out what my next 8 weeks looked like, including back pay to my employees whose paychecks were slashed 4 weeks prior.


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  13. #13
    The ICBA is lobbying Congress to loosen/modify the guidelines. Hopefully, they’ll be successful. I’d ease up on filing that forgiveness paper work for now. That should be simplified as well.


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  14. #14
    It'll work out. This has been a concern of the banking trade groups (my line of work) and the banks for about a month now once the initial PPP mess due to the SBA/Treasury got "settled."


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  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by tenureplan View Post
    If true, makes me wish I would have started an LLC
    You didn't have to be a LLC. You could be a plain sole proprietor. Hell you could be a Partnership, S Corps or and C Corps and still get the money.


    Wahoo McDaniel | Chris McDaniel Yes | No

  16. #16
    That has definitely happened with some businesses. But tell that to the mom and pop shops that got the loan. Fella I know that owns a pizza shop definitely would have downsized after losing about 40% of his business for nearly 2 months.

    It certainly could have been written into law better or had more oversight to prevent it from being abused. But to make a blanket statement like that is disingenuous.


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  17. #17
    My wife's office closed two satellite offices, furloughed 1/3 of employees at main office and cut the administration's pay by 25% and took the full amount allowed in PPP money. I still don't understand how they can account for 75% going to payroll when their payroll is a fraction of what it was pre-pandemic.
    Last edited by Daddy Rabbit Dawg; 05-25-2020 at 10:54 AM.


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  18. #18
    Please point out my "blanket statement". But if you do want some blanket statements google "PPP fraud" or "PPP abuse". You see what people like yourself don't understand is that abuse of these well meaning government programs exhausts the their funds to the point that they can't serve the purpose they were written for in the first place. The specific abuse I pointed out didn't hurt me but it could keep your "mom and pop pizza shop" from getting all the help they need to stay open. Not really rocket surgery.
    Last edited by thatsbaseball; 05-25-2020 at 10:55 AM.


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  19. #19
    I feel like in a roundabout way that we are agreeing but I missed it in your earlier posts. PPP in general is a great thing for what it was intended. In their haste and general disfunction congress did not set up enough rules and or oversight to implement it correctly to prevent scams and fraud.

    In a perfect world it definitely could have been much better/cheaper. I guess I thought that where we disagreed is that I still think it helped a ton of small businesses stay afloat and that made it still a mostly good thing.

    Maybe they could add on some requirements for the forgiveness portion of the loan and make some of those legitimate business people that used it but didn’t need it pay it back at really low interest. But I doubt it. Actual fraudsters and scammers won’t care one way or the other after they got their hands on it.


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  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by aerodawg View Post
    I feel like in a roundabout way that we are agreeing but I missed it in your earlier posts. PPP in general is a great thing for what it was intended. In their haste and general disfunction congress did not set up enough rules and or oversight to implement it correctly to prevent scams and fraud.

    In a perfect world it definitely could have been much better/cheaper. I guess I thought that where we disagreed is that I still think it helped a ton of small businesses stay afloat and that made it still a mostly good thing.

    Maybe they could add on some requirements for the forgiveness portion of the loan and make some of those legitimate business people that used it but didn’t need it pay it back at really low interest. But I doubt it. Actual fraudsters and scammers won’t care one way or the other after they got their hands on it.
    I don’t think they will be able to go back on people who already signed their loan documents and took the ppp loan. With the expectation of forgiveness if they met the requirements that were present at the time they signed their loan documents. Doubt that would hold up in any court of law. Otherwise, the borrower might have made the decision not to take the loan in the first place. The ppp loan wasn’t created to be a “loan”. It was created to be a grant, as long as you spent it on what their conditions were when you signed your loan documents. The income a business lost during the time of shut down isn’t coming back. It’s gone. So it’s not like the business will make that money back to pay back a “loan”. That income is forever gone. The ppp “loan” was supposed to make up for lost income to pay employees (yes, even owner/members of LLCs) due to no fault of the business’ own.

    Disclosure: I got a PPP for my business.


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  21. #21
    Considering a lot of states all the same color are severely restricting businesses opening I believe they will change the payback period. Of course I think some governors may try to stay shut until Nov and blame it on the guy at the top.


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  22. #22
    fishwater99's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by thatsbaseball View Post
    It didn't "keep them from laying off" anyone. They never were going to lay off anyone. It looks to me like the gov't is simply making the payroll for a company that didn't need the money.
    Correct. It’s free money as long as you use it as per the requirements and don’t lay anyone off. They should have made you prove revenue losses to not have to pay it back.
    Another government giveaway for a larger than you think percentage of PPP recipients.


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  23. #23
    They had a date (maybe 3/1 or 2/15) on which they tied the numbers to.

    Round number example, if you had 12 employees and a $50,000 monthly payroll on February 15, you would have gotten about $125,000 in PPP money.

    After all this, you must fill out an application and prove that you still have at least 9 employees (75%) left on the payroll, and that you have paid them through the shutdown.

    Or I think there are different ways to calculate and prove the 75%. For example, you could have kept all 12 employees but cut everyone's pay down to 75% of their salary and still have the "loan" forgiven.


    Wahoo McDaniel | Chris McDaniel Yes | No

  24. #24
    I just wish I could get that first $1,200 stimulus payment. Still waiting on that. Anyone else still waiting?

    ETA= I mean the individual payment, not business.


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  25. #25
    archdog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by goodknight View Post
    Considering a lot of states all the same color are severely restricting businesses opening I believe they will change the payback period. Of course I think some governors may try to stay shut until Nov and blame it on the guy at the top.
    Nope, wrong. Name me one state that is staying closed without reason. I believe as of this moment, every single state has opened even without strong guidelines on how to reopen in most places. Opening has nothing to do with red or blue. It has everything to do with how the numbers are looking and balancing that with what businesses need to survive. The PPP money is the best money our congress has spent. If businesses currently had the money for payroll, it doesn't mean they were not looking at what October was going to bring. The uncertainty was alleviated by the PPP funds. In my opinion, it gave tons of businesses an opportunity to pay their employees and stockpile their current funds for the uncertainty of the future. Which businesses in every state needed.


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  26. #26
    Yep. Lot of waste and pork in the PPP program. And WAY too complicated for the really small businesses to navigate.


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  27. #27
    archdog's Avatar
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    I disagree on the revenue lost proof. Every business will continue to be effected by the virus, in ways that are not fully known yet. The PPP money was to ensure people had working capital to pay their employees. Without it, layoffs would have happened at a far greater extent based on the future outlook on business. This bought time, exactly what it was meant to do.


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  28. #28
    archdog's Avatar
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    It was not complicated for small businesses to navigate. many did. Sorry if some cannot fill out a simple form with the help of their lender. If anything, it was too easy.


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    Wahoo McDaniel | Chris McDaniel Yes | No

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