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  1. #1

    Informative post from Facebook.

    This was posted from a well known doctor at Delta Regional in Greenville, MS. I know him and trust him, as he's treated relatives of mine and shown to be a good doctor.

    "Dear friends and family:As I see my posts being shared quite often, I will introduce my credentials. I am a practicing Medical Hematologist & Oncologist for 30 years. I am board certified by ABIM in Internal Medicine (1993, 2003 and 2013), Medical Oncology (1996, 2006 and 2016) and Hematology (1997, 2007 and 2017). I have served as Chief medical resident, Chief of medicine, Chief of staff, MEC and numerous committees. I embraced inpatient Covid care in February 2020 and have been and continue to be, firsthand involved in every single Covid admission to DRMC in Greenville, MS in Washington county, one of the most heavily affected areas in the state of MS.

    I have come to realize that the cycles of the Covid-19 disease are unknown to most, hence the understandable confusion regarding Hydroxychloroquine. Here is a concise presentation. (Great thanks to Gary Taylor from Greenville for the drawings)

    Please refer to the Picture at the end of the post

    As the virus invades the respiratory system, our immune system will eventually eradicate it. However, unlike other viral diseases, in some patients, this immune response will cause an inflammation that, given enough time, will independently disrupt oxygen transfer from the lung to blood capillaries even after the virus has been destroyed. Concomitantly, the capillaries are squeezed and intravascular clotting starts, causing rapid vascular closure. Consequently, as the disease progresses, blood oxygen levels will keep dropping until asphyxia occurs.

    Starting Hydroxychloroquine at stages 1 or 2 will promptly destroy the virus and prevent the inflammatory reaction from occurring, hence an exceedingly high success rate. These two stages are seen outside the hospital. Few treated patients will progress to hospital admission and even less will die. At DRMC outpatient clinic, where Hydroxy is promptly started, only seven patients had to be admitted of whom only one remains intubated (NO DEATHS SO FAR AT THAT STAGE). These results have been duplicated across the world and are certainly not unique to my practice.

    At early to mid-stage III, Hydroxychloroquine has been shown to reduce the risk of death by about 65% (Both in US and Italy). The immediate addition of anticoagulation and anti-inflammatory treatment will bring mortality well into the single digits (personal experience, to be published).

    Late stage III and stage IV is when oxygen requirements are significant. By then, the virus has been cleared thanks to the immune system, but capillary clotting and inflammation of the green barrier (shown above) are still rampant. As the virus has been cleared, you can see clearly why, at this stage, Hydroxy (or any other antiviral) will miserably fail at making an impact. This is the stage where all the negative studies of Hydroxychloroquine that you hear about have been publicized.

    Hydroxychloroquineís toxicity is another target of widespread misinformation. When used by expert physicians, in a total of more than 4000 patients that were properly screened for appropriateness of Hydroxychloroquine, there was (as in my practice) not a single cardiac-related death. The main side effect is nausea which occurs in 2 to 5% of people. However, in advanced stages, patients are so ill that treatment-related toxicities (including cardiac) will uniformly rise.

    Undoubtedly, it would be ideal if we had US clinical trials to validate this approach once and for all. For your knowledge, this is one of the job descriptions of the National Institute of Health as posted on their website. If you want to lay any criticism as to why it is not yet available 8 months into the pandemic, please address it with the NIH, not by questioning the integrity of those who constantly, diligently, and unwaveringly, are putting both their own and their familiesí physical wellbeing at risk to deliver the best possible care.

    I therefore urge you all to promptly seek care if symptomatic. Reach out to your primary care physician early on for rapid intervention. If you are simply advised to receive Tylenol and a cough syrup, quickly find someone else. These treatments need a comprehensive medical evaluation, blood testing, and EKG to be delivered safely. They cannot be dispensed over the phone.

    Best regards and God speed to all as we continue navigate these difficult times,

    Maroun Hayek, MD"

    Facebook is deleting his posts as quickly as he can post them, as well as others sharing them. This censorship is criminal.



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  2. #2
    PineGroveBully's Avatar
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    Iím not a disease expert but isnít the common cold also a coronavirus? Iíve read where it also isnít what makes you sick but itís the actual immune response itself as opposed to the virus that makes you feel so lousy.
    When I lose my cool other guys go looking for it. - PGB


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  3. #3
    I feel like the world would be a lot safer if we took away Facebook and Twitter access when you turn 65.


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  4. #4
    https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa2019014

    Not from Facebook, so Iím not sure itís reliable.

    I really cannot understand the obsession with this. We used plaquenil on everybody we saw when this first broke. It did not work. There are now peer reviewed studies that say it did not work.

    Also, Iím not for censorship. I wish they would just leave this trash up. Deleting it just makes people believe the cigarette smoking man is trying to snuff out fox mulder. And yes, thatís the level of lunacy these conspiracies have reached:


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  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by HailStout View Post
    https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa2019014

    Not from Facebook, so Iím not sure itís reliable.

    I really cannot understand the obsession with this. We used plaquenil on everybody we saw when this first broke. It did not work. There are now peer reviewed studies that say it did not work.

    Also, Iím not for censorship. I wish they would just leave this trash up. Deleting it just makes people believe the cigarette smoking man is trying to snuff out fox mulder. And yes, thatís the level of lunacy these conspiracies have reached:
    But but I trust some random doctor on Facebook more than a peer reviewed methodical study in the New England Journal of Medicine.***

    For real though, Iím sure there are still enough unanswered questions about Hydroxychloroquine and COVID to warrant further study. That being said, it looks less and less promising. Doesnít it make sense to focus efforts on other drugs that show better promise than to try and press forward with one that appears not to help?

    venit, vidimus, amisimus


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  6. #6
    Make this shareable !


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  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by codeDawg View Post
    I feel like the world would be a lot safer if we took away Facebook and Twitter access when you turn 65.
    Yep, we should stop listening to docs who have had success with certain medications and only listen to politicians and ignorant message board posters with zero experience with the medication. Better yet, let's welcome all infected from other countries and throw our covid positives in nursing homes then blame others for our stupidity.


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  8. #8
    The Herd Immunity Bro
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    The people that I talked to that had symptoms were given Rocephin/Decadron shot and Zpack.


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  9. #9

    Decadron has had similar mixed reviews as HCQ

    Quote Originally Posted by Leeshouldveflanked View Post
    The people that I talked to that had symptoms were given Rocephin/Decadron shot and Zpack.
    Both probably have their place in covid treatment and are useful tools when used at the right time for the right patient.

    Funny how decadron has not generated such an emotional and political controversy. Can't imagine why that happened***


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  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by PineGroveBully View Post
    I’m not a disease expert but isn’t the common cold also a coronavirus? I’ve read where it also isn’t what makes you sick but it’s the actual immune response itself as opposed to the virus that makes you feel so lousy.
    Fever is you body fighting off the bug or what ever but it can get too high and kill you.


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  11. #11
    Fauci told Congress there has not been a randomized, placebo controlled study showing any benefit to hydroxchloroquine as a treatment for COVID. He continued by saying any trial he had seen meeting those criteria had failed to show any benefit in taking the drug as a treatment for this virus.

    https://www.cnbc.com/2020/07/29/dr-f...ronavirus.html
    Last edited by 57stratdawg; 08-04-2020 at 08:07 AM.


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  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by ckDOG View Post
    Both probably have their place in covid treatment and are useful tools when used at the right time for the right patient.

    Funny how decadron has not generated such an emotional and political controversy. Can't imagine why that happened***
    https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa2021436


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  13. #13

    The problem is that there are too many examples of it working.

    It's been so widely used that you have doctors who now publicly swear by it, including the guy in this thread who does indeed appear to be who he says he is. You literally have posters on this very board who have been treated with it, they claim successfully.

    From my personal perspective, all the original US studies supposedly debunking it were poorly aimed, particularly that VA one, which has been widely cited.
    Nearly from day one, the best window touted for this treatment was early, but every one of the studies that were thrown up by the media during the early months ignored that, and they all loved to harp on the cardiac risks, which have been known and identified for literally decades.
    Combine that with a lack of a full-fledged, organized US study to point to, and it looks really fishy. Really, really fishy.

    It may not be a cure, or even really helping compared to other drugs, but to the objective observer the case is absolutely not open and shut.


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  14. #14
    Double post


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  15. #15
    Maroon Eagle's Avatar
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    Yep. There's correlation but proof of causation isn't there yet which is why a lot of folks aren't recommending it yet.


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  16. #16
    The cure rate for this disease approaches 99%. So of course there are going to be many, many anecdotal cases of people who were treated with Hydroxychloroquine who recovered. Doesn't mean the drug helped at all.


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  17. #17
    Add one more reason why this whole Covid crap is so controversial. Didn’t the state of Ohio just ban the use of Hydroxychloroquine in the entire state by all doctors. Take the politics out and we’d get straight answers in my opinion but some view this as a way to change leadership at the top and impact the upcoming election.


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  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by EngDawg View Post
    But but I trust some random doctor on Facebook more than a peer reviewed methodical study in the New England Journal of Medicine.***

    For real though, I’m sure there are still enough unanswered questions about Hydroxychloroquine and COVID to warrant further study. That being said, it looks less and less promising. Doesn’t it make sense to focus efforts on other drugs that show better promise than to try and press forward with one that appears not to help?
    Only he's not a random doctor on Facebook to me... I trust what he's saying, which is stating results of his actual experiences and treatments.


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  19. #19
    The Herd Immunity Bro
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    Quote Originally Posted by goodknight View Post
    Add one more reason why this whole Covid crap is so controversial. Didn’t the state of Ohio just ban the use of Hydroxychloroquine in the entire state by all doctors. Take the politics out and we’d get straight answers in my opinion but some view this as a way to change leadership at the top and impact the upcoming election.
    The Governor reversed his order two days later after complaints from Doctors


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  20. #20
    The Corona Bro
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    Quote Originally Posted by HailStout View Post
    https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa2019014

    Not from Facebook, so I’m not sure it’s reliable.

    I really cannot understand the obsession with this. We used plaquenil on everybody we saw when this first broke. It did not work. There are now peer reviewed studies that say it did not work.

    Also, I’m not for censorship. I wish they would just leave this trash up. Deleting it just makes people believe the cigarette smoking man is trying to snuff out fox mulder. And yes, that’s the level of lunacy these conspiracies have reached:
    There are multiple very large double blind random placebo studies that say it doesn't work. But by all means lets go with what a Doc in Greenville MS says.


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  21. #21
    The Corona Bro
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    Quote Originally Posted by Leeshouldveflanked View Post
    The Governor reversed his order two days later after complaints from Doctors
    According to what I read he did it on his own. He is playing politics.


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  22. #22
    Who here would NOT take Hydroxychloroquine early on if their doctor prescribed it ? I damn sure would.


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  23. #23
    I wouldnít. And I would find a new doctor.


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  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by patdog View Post
    The cure rate for this disease approaches 99%. So of course there are going to be many, many anecdotal cases of people who were treated with Hydroxychloroquine who recovered. Doesn't mean the drug helped at all.
    it also doesn't mean the drug didn't help.


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  25. #25
    The results of the double-blind study actually do mean the drug didn't help.


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  26. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by L4Dawg View Post
    There are multiple very large double blind random placebo studies that say it doesn't work. But by all means lets go with what a Doc in Greenville MS says.
    You do what you feel you have to do, which is apparently root for the virus to defeat any and all treatment and discount any success stories, but I'll go by the word of someone I trust.


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  27. #27
    One Call. That's All Lawdawg's Avatar
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    MAROUNNNNN!!!!!!1!


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  28. #28
    There are highly qualified people on both sides of this debate. Here a link to an Op-Ed in Newsweek from an epidemiologist from Yale who agrees with the basic premise of the Facebook post. https://www.newsweek.com/key-defeati...pinion-1519535

    The real answer probably won't be known until well after there is either a vaccine or herd immunity.

    Of course, there are the usual posters on this board who have never gone to Medical school, never had a course in virology, immunology, epidemiology, infectious disease, or pharmacology; who have never taken care of a patient; never taken a course in medical statistics, and know nothing of hospital administration, claim to be Omniscient, to the point of mind reading and assigning motivation. It makes me question what kind of graduate MSU is producing.


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  29. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by 57stratdawg View Post
    Fauci told Congress there has not been a randomized, placebo controlled study showing any benefit to hydroxchloroquine as a treatment for COVID. He continued by saying any trial he had seen meeting those criteria had failed to show any benefit in taking the drug as a treatment for this virus.

    https://www.cnbc.com/2020/07/29/dr-f...ronavirus.html
    So there is no double standard, please produce the double blind study that wearing a mask outside a hospital setting significantly decreases the spread of a respiratory virus. You can't, because there isn't one. That's why is some Docs say it helps, and some say it doesn't.


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  30. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by L4Dawg View Post
    There are multiple very large double blind random placebo studies that say it doesn't work. But by all means lets go with what a Doc in Greenville MS says.
    But actually.....it does work. Is it a magic bullet, end all be all? Probably not, but it does appear to work when taken correctly.


    Those studies referenced are flawed and don't address the likely true therapeutic benefit of Hydroxychloroquine (HCQ). The studies quoted and used by people to disprove the effectiveness of HCQ are ignoring probably the most important piece to the puzzle. HCQ may not directly do anything to the virus itself, although it has been proposed that HCQ changes the pH of host cell endosomes and plays some role in inhibiting viral entry, and it may very well do that. But the main benefit of how HCQ works is its synergistic role in getting Zinc into the cell (1). This is important as Zinc is shown to inhibit the viral RNA dependent RNA Polymerase (2a and 2b). Once the Polymerase is inhibited the virus can no longer undergo transcription and thus no longer replicate and make new viruses. Zinc, however, does not freely cross those cell membranes, so it needs a helper, an "ionophore" to get into the cell. Hydroxychloroquine acts as that ionophore and allows Zinc entry into the cell (1). And normally a well nourished person does have some level of Zinc freely available, but to really get more benefit Zinc needs to added to your system.

    It has been shown that the addition of Zinc sulfate (220mg BID) to HCQ + Azithromycin does in fact lead to decreased overall mortality and decreased need for ICU care when compared to just HCQ + Azithromycin. (3) It works when started early and before the diffuse free radical induced hypercoagulable and cytokine mediated inflammatory reactions flair up. There are now multiple case control double blind studies underway assessing the addition of zinc sulfate to the HCQ/Azo regimen.

    Also, no need to be so condescending. Just because a physician chooses to practice in a small town shouldn't discredit their intelligence or understanding of medicine. Some docs like the small town quality of life, others like a big city. Different strokes for different folks. He clearly cares enough about his community to continue to educate himself with the newest information available to provide quality care.


    1) Chloroquine is a Zinc Ionophore (2010)
    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4182877/

    2a)Zn2+ Inhibits Coronavirus and Arterivirus RNA Polymerase Activity In Vitro and Zinc Ionophores Block the Replication of These Viruses in Cell Culture (2010)
    https://journals.plos.org/plospathog...pat.1001176#s2

    2b) Potential Role of Zinc Supplementation in Prophylaxis and Treatment of COVID-19 (May 2020)
    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7247509/

    3)Hydroxychloroquine and azithromycin plus zinc vs hydroxychloroquine andazithromycin alone: outcomes in hospitalized COVID-19 patients (May 2020)
    https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1...036v1.full.pdf


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  31. #31
    As someone who has taken Hydroxychloroquine for Covid, everyone with a so called report down playing it can go can pound sand. When else in history has a medical treatment become a political tool.

    Did
    Hydroxychloroquine "cure" me of the virus, I can't say for sure but I'm still here and kicking. If you or a family member were in my situation, sitting in the ER while the Dr is admitting you to the ICU, would you turn down any type of treatment because of an article your wife's friend from high school half sister's alleged Doctor posted on FB? Its easy to argue back and forth on the subject but when your feet are to the fire what are you going to do.


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  32. #32
    The Corona Bro
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    Quote Originally Posted by SyonaraStanz View Post
    You do what you feel you have to do, which is apparently root for the virus to defeat any and all treatment and discount any success stories, but I'll go by the word of someone I trust.
    You can go ............


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  33. #33
    I know exactly what I would do...the same thing. I'm glad you made it through...good luck.
    Last edited by thatsbaseball; 08-04-2020 at 01:09 PM.


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  34. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by L4Dawg View Post
    You can go ............


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  35. #35
    $altyDawg's Avatar
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    He is playing politics.
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    I've polished a seat in every SEC football stadium with my butt.


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  36. #36

    You right.

    Quote Originally Posted by 40 acres and a mule View Post
    There are highly qualified people on both sides of this debate. Here a link to an Op-Ed in Newsweek from an epidemiologist from Yale who agrees with the basic premise of the Facebook post. https://www.newsweek.com/key-defeati...pinion-1519535

    The real answer probably won't be known until well after there is either a vaccine or herd immunity.

    Of course, there are the usual posters on this board who have never gone to Medical school, never had a course in virology, immunology, epidemiology, infectious disease, or pharmacology; who have never taken care of a patient; never taken a course in medical statistics, and know nothing of hospital administration, claim to be Omniscient, to the point of mind reading and assigning motivation. It makes me question what kind of graduate MSU is producing.
    It's just bizarre. If you aren't a physician, pharmacist, or pharmacologist (and a small set of others) and you've found yourself fired up about this drug one way or the other, you might want to question why. Are you searching for truth or validation right now? As I mentioned earlier in the thread, there other other cheap drugs (decadron for one) that are showing modest effectiveness that nobody talks about. There's a reason for that and it has zero to do with science (or conspiracy - pharma would love to be able to make positive claims about their production as it relates to drugs - I don't care if the winning drugs are cheap - there's profit to be made).

    I've tried to read some studies with varying conclusions and you can pick at a lot of it. The reason for that isn't conspiracy - it's just all new - the science is going to settle itself out over time. It just so happens we have two very unique circumstances going on: 1) we all REALLY want a solid treatment ASAP and 2) the president jumped the gun and tried to sell it rather than making responsible unbiased statements about the research going on with HCQ and others. It was just strange to hear a president put so many eggs in that basket and now everyone is all ginned up and digging in.


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  37. #37
    Can anyone tell me why on earth there continue to be threads about this? The rest of the world who doesnít sit around in political echo chambers have moved on. There are more effective treatments. Maybe there is some cases where it has some value, but itís so narrow and so specific it canít be considered an effective tool when more effective drugs exist. Why is this even a conversation?

    Some people I have heard even say they would take it over the more effective drugs. They would literally risk their lives to own the libs. What is wrong with people? How does your worldview get to a place where ďbeatingĒ other people you disagree with is more important than your life. Some people would rather be right than living, apparently.


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  38. #38
    The Corona Bro
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    Quote Originally Posted by SyonaraStanz View Post
    Oh, you are cool all right. I've had a friend die from it. I've had many people I knew die from it. There are some warming up in the bullpen right now. What you really are is just a common jerk.
    Last edited by L4Dawg; 08-04-2020 at 12:22 PM.


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  39. #39
    The Corona Bro
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    Quote Originally Posted by codeDawg View Post
    Can anyone tell me why on earth there continue to be threads about this? The rest of the world who doesn’t sit around in political echo chambers have moved on. There are more effective treatments. Maybe there is some cases where it has some value, but it’s so narrow and so specific it can’t be considered an effective tool when more effective drugs exist. Why is this even a conversation?

    Some people I have heard even say they would take it over the more effective drugs. They would literally risk their lives to own the libs. What is wrong with people? How does your worldview get to a place where “beating” other people you disagree with is more important than your life. Some people would rather be right than living, apparently.
    Exactly. I expect you can go back to April and find some positive posts from me about it. Since then some real scientifically obtained data has come in. The truth is nothing works real well, and that drug at BEST does nothing.


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  40. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by codeDawg View Post
    Can anyone tell me why on earth there continue to be threads about this? The rest of the world who doesn’t sit around in political echo chambers have moved on. There are more effective treatments. Maybe there is some cases where it has some value, but it’s so narrow and so specific it can’t be considered an effective tool when more effective drugs exist. Why is this even a conversation?

    Some people I have heard even say they would take it over the more effective drugs. They would literally risk their lives to own the libs. What is wrong with people? How does your worldview get to a place where “beating” other people you disagree with is more important than your life. Some people would rather be right than living, apparently.
    I shared it because it hit close to home and because it is one of the better explanations I've read about how it can be effective, as well as how it cannot be effective. It also blows my mind how Facebook is blatantly censoring potentially helpful information.


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