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  1. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by manofsteel View Post
    It is a QB centric scheme. If the QB is having a big day, prob gonna win. If the QB is having a bad day, prob get your doors blown off. Leach could use the run game to help a new QB, hard no.

    Leach either adapts and evolves his offense or you are gonna struggle.

    So it looks like struggle is the answer.

    I felt like Leach was coaching like a guy on his way out last season. The rumor was that he spent 5 months of the year in Key West. The #1 wide receiver prospect in the state was on campus and he was out of town. Kid signed with Ohio State if memory serves. Maybe taking a SEC job lights his fire again, who knows.

    Imo, the guy to hire is the guy that’s the next Mike Leach. The guy that takes the air raid and moves it forward.

    It will be interesting to see the posts here after the next 5 games.
    What are your thoughts on Covid?


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  2. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by manofsteel View Post
    It is a QB centric scheme. If the QB is having a big day, prob gonna win. If the QB is having a bad day, prob get your doors blown off. Leach could use the run game to help a new QB, hard no.

    Leach either adapts and evolves his offense or you are gonna struggle.

    So it looks like struggle is the answer.

    I felt like Leach was coaching like a guy on his way out last season. The rumor was that he spent 5 months of the year in Key West. The #1 wide receiver prospect in the state was on campus and he was out of town. Kid signed with Ohio State if memory serves. Maybe taking a SEC job lights his fire again, who knows.

    Imo, the guy to hire is the guy that’s the next Mike Leach. The guy that takes the air raid and moves it forward.

    It will be interesting to see the posts here after the next 5 games.
    Nobody here can really argue with you at this point. That exact scenario played out the first 3 games. The play of the QB directly contributed to the play of our team. Yeah our OL didn't block well, and some other things, but the INTs killed more than anything. They were bad INTs. It's not all Costello's fault but I can say with certainty that if we avoid the bad INTs we are likely 3-0.

    But yeah, some of that pressure could have been offset by a few running plays here and there.

    Post more. I'm trusting that DCD is correct and you are in WA state and in fact, not L4.


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  3. #43
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    That's who I was thinking when Dorn made that comment. Maybe he can just cycle through Time Lord photos beginning with his next regeneration...

    doctorgoatku


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  4. #44
    I actually agree with the poster to some extent.

    In the SEC, you have to gradually introduce a new scheme maximizing the abilities of the current roster. You can't just go all in on new scheme that doesn't showcase what your most talented players do best.

    An example of this would be Mullen's willingness to use a fullback early in his tenure at MSU MSU has good fullbacks and he found a way to use them.

    Leach's offense, with the right roster, should work in the SEC, but there's no reason to piss away two years before then.


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  5. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by shotgunDawg View Post
    I actually agree with the poster to some extent.

    In the SEC, you have to gradually introduce a new scheme maximizing the abilities of the current roster. You can't just go all in on new scheme that doesn't showcase what your most talented players do best.

    An example of this would be Mullen's willingness to use a fullback early in his tenure at MSU MSU has good fullbacks and he found a way to use them.

    Leach's offense, with the right roster, should work in the SEC, but there's no reason to piss away two years before then.
    Agreed, the only time you can wholesale change things is when you're in the dumps already and have nowhere to go but up. That wasn't true of MSU in 2017 nor 2019. Which makes it so puzzling that Cohen chose to go that direction.....twice, although it wasn't so bad the second time because we were already 2 years into a transition to a passing offense. It also makes Leach's current failures more frustrating.

    Kiffin's transition is a good example. They were down and out, so why not install something new. And if they hadn't had Matt Corral, it would have been rockier.
    Last edited by Russ Wheeler; 10-13-2020 at 11:51 AM.


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  6. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by Russ Wheeler View Post
    Agreed, the only time you can wholesale change things is when you're in the dumps already and have nowhere to go but up. That wasn't true of MSU in 2017 nor 2019. Which makes it so puzzling that Cohen chose to go that direction.....twice, although it wasn't so bad the second time because we were already 2 years into a transition to a passing offense. It also makes Leach's current failures more frustrating.

    Kiffin's transition is a good example. They were down and out, so why not install something new. And if they hadn't had Matt Corral, it would have been rockier.
    Thereís no doubt that Corral, Ealy and Elijah Moore being at OM definitely helped the transition for Kiffin. Thatís inarguable. Corral should sue Longo and Rich Rod for how he was used.

    But, Kiffin isnít beholden to a system. He showed at Alabama and FAU that heíd revamp his system each year to fit his personnel. Now, certainly there are some conceptual things that are consistent (tempo, spread formations, etc.). But, heís not going to throw it 60 times a game or run it 40 times a game, no matter what, because dammit thatís his system! He will adapt to personnel and matchups. Iím not saying one is right and one is wrong, but adaptation certainly helps ease the transition pains. As does inheriting talented pieces to work with.


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  7. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by oxfordrebel22 View Post
    There’s no doubt that Corral, Ealy and Elijah Moore being at OM definitely helped the transition for Kiffin. That’s inarguable. Corral should sue Longo and Rich Rod for how he was used.

    But, Kiffin isn’t beholden to a system. He showed at Alabama and FAU that he’d revamp his system each year to fit his personnel. Now, certainly there are some conceptual things that are consistent (tempo, spread formations, etc.). But, he’s not going to throw it 60 times a game or run it 40 times a game, no matter what, because dammit that’s his system! He will adapt to personnel and matchups. I’m not saying one is right and one is wrong, but adaptation certainly helps ease the transition pains. As does inheriting talented pieces to work with.
    I could see that. I tend to label coaches as system guys (Malzahn, Leach), fundamental guys (Mullen, Saban) and recruiter guys (Dabo, Orgeron). Doesn't matter which side of the ball they are on, though you never seen a defensive system guy, though Muschamp and Strong could be considered that. Some are mixes of two (Freeze - was a recruiter and system guy). Not sure where Lane goes just yet. A lot of system guys cap out at coordinator.....they usually have to develop other skills (or hire them out like Leach) to be successful as a head coach.

    I know, I know....I've wasted way too much time thinking about this sort of thing.
    Last edited by Russ Wheeler; 10-13-2020 at 12:29 PM.


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  8. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by oxfordrebel22 View Post
    There’s no doubt that Corral, Ealy and Elijah Moore being at OM definitely helped the transition for Kiffin. That’s inarguable. Corral should sue Longo and Rich Rod for how he was used.

    But, Kiffin isn’t beholden to a system. He showed at Alabama and FAU that he’d revamp his system each year to fit his personnel. Now, certainly there are some conceptual things that are consistent (tempo, spread formations, etc.). But, he’s not going to throw it 60 times a game or run it 40 times a game, no matter what, because dammit that’s his system! He will adapt to personnel and matchups. I’m not saying one is right and one is wrong, but adaptation certainly helps ease the transition pains. As does inheriting talented pieces to work with.
    Too bad OM didn't use a few scholarships for defensive players. Even with the offense as well as its played, it took a lot of bonehead from KY for OM not to be 0-3 right now.


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  9. #49
    Quote Originally Posted by maroonmania View Post
    Too bad OM didn't use a few scholarships for defensive players. Even with the offense as well as its played, it took a lot of bonehead from KY for OM not to be 0-3 right now.
    You ainít kidding. Itís historically bad. I mean bad, BAD. Itís hard to pay those top flight DL while on probation. And thatís the only way to get them. No doubt that having the #2 offense in the country is dampened a little bit by having the worst defense. Some of the defensive stats in Alabama game read like a 6A high school versus 1A.


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  10. #50
    Seems that you're somewhat delighted, even in your grief


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  11. #51
    Quote Originally Posted by SanfordRJones View Post
    What are your thoughts on Covid?
    Yes. I want to know this since his State allowed the Wuhanians in who brought this crap to the USA!****


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  12. #52
    ManofSteel. Since you are in Washerton, you are probably not in the know on our current situation. So let me inform you... we beat the hell out of the national champs. Leach had that air raid flying at warp speed. The coaches, players and the Bulldog Nation was elated. Our players were really happy. The QB had 623 yards, starting RB had 194 yards, veteran WR had 183 yards and a young pup WR HAD 122 yards. I mean the players were having visions of 1st and 2nd draft day.

    But then the unthinkable happened after our big win. For some unknown to man reason, these same players became malcontent. Not the run of the mill "I should have gotten one more carry or catch," these guys starting complaining, rebelling, and sabotaged the air raid. And that's why we lost our last two games. As you pointed out, the Dogs couldn't score against the Cats. But that just shows the ill-affect of these dissidents.

    But we aren't distressed. See, Coach Leach called those malcontents to the carpet and told them that he was not Joe Moorhead and to shape-up or ship-out. Rumor has it that he might bench 3,4,5,6-11 of them. So that will get us flying high again. If not just wait until he has a full year to coach them (I don't know about there, but we have Covid down here and Coach didn't get to teach them everything). Oh yeah, he also have "his guys" next year, nothing but top-notch players, 4&5 stars. Air Raid will dominate the SEC. IN LEACH and AIR RAID WE TRUST, minus the malcontents.


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  13. #53
    Quote Originally Posted by PendingTransaction View Post
    ManofSteel. Since you are in Washerton, you are probably not in the know on our current situation. So let me inform you... we beat the hell out of the national champs. Leach had that air raid flying at warp speed. The coaches, players and the Bulldog Nation was elated. Our players were really happy. The QB had 623 yards, starting RB had 194 yards, veteran WR had 183 yards and a young pup WR HAD 122 yards. I mean the players were having visions of 1st and 2nd draft day.

    But then the unthinkable happened after our big win. For some unknown to man reason, these same players became malcontent. Not the run of the mill "I should have gotten one more carry or catch," these guys starting complaining, rebelling, and sabotaged the air raid. And that's why we lost our last two games. As you pointed out, the Dogs couldn't score against the Cats. But that just shows the ill-affect of these dissidents.

    But we aren't distressed. See, Coach Leach called those malcontents to the carpet and told them that he was not Joe Moorhead and to shape-up or ship-out. Rumor has it that he might bench 3,4,5,6-11 of them. So that will get us flying high again. If not just wait until he has a full year to coach them (I don't know about there, but we have Covid down here and Coach didn't get to teach them everything). Oh yeah, he also have "his guys" next year, nothing but top-notch players, 4&5 stars. Air Raid will dominate the SEC. IN LEACH and AIR RAID WE TRUST, minus the malcontents.
    You had me right up until the ď4&5 starsĒ part. Thatís too bad because I wanted to like the comment. Surely nobody here really believe that this team is going to start recruiting exclusively top notch talent.


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  14. #54
    If Leachís offense was figured out in the Pac12, why were his last years there his best offensively?

    2012 - 20.4 PPG; 360 YPG; 2.5 Turnovers PG
    2013 - 31 PPG; 421 YPG; 2.7 Turnovers PG
    2014 - 31.8 PPG; 518 YPG; 2.1 Turnovers PG
    2015 - 31.5 PPG; 470 YPG; 1.9 Turnovers PG
    2016 - 38.2 PPG; 484 YPG; 1.3 Turnovers PG
    2017 - 30.3 PPG; 434 YPG; 2.4 Turnovers PG
    2018 - 37.5 PPG; 453 YPG; 1.1 Turnovers PG
    2019 - 37.8 PPG; 505 YPG; 1.9 Turnovers PG

    That looks like an offense that got better through Leachís tenure, not figured out. The effectiveness of Leachís offense comes down to the exact same stuff that determine success for any scheme.

    1) Taking care of the football
    2) Blocking up front
    3) Execution/timing by the QB and skill position

    Currently we are doing none of those three things well. If we start doing those things well, we will be successful. Itís really that simple.

    The drop 8 into zone strategy can definitely slow down this offense and make precise execution more important because it take away the big play. But this will absolutely still be an effective offense if we can take care of the ball, block, and execute.


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  15. #55
    Quote Originally Posted by messageboardsuperhero View Post
    If Leachís offense was figured out in the Pac12, why were his last years there his best offensively?

    2012 - 20.4 PPG; 360 YPG; 2.5 Turnovers PG
    2013 - 31 PPG; 421 YPG; 2.7 Turnovers PG
    2014 - 31.8 PPG; 518 YPG; 2.1 Turnovers PG
    2015 - 31.5 PPG; 470 YPG; 1.9 Turnovers PG
    2016 - 38.2 PPG; 484 YPG; 1.3 Turnovers PG
    2017 - 30.3 PPG; 434 YPG; 2.4 Turnovers PG
    2018 - 37.5 PPG; 453 YPG; 1.1 Turnovers PG
    2019 - 37.8 PPG; 505 YPG; 1.9 Turnovers PG

    That looks like an offense that got better through Leachís tenure, not figured out. The effectiveness of Leachís offense comes down to the exact same stuff that determine success for any scheme.

    1) Taking care of the football
    2) Blocking up front
    3) Execution/timing by the QB and skill position

    Currently we are doing none of those three things well. If we start doing those things well, we will be successful. Itís really that simple.

    The drop 8 into zone strategy can definitely slow down this offense and make precise execution more important because it take away the big play. But this will absolutely still be an effective offense if we can take care of the ball, block, and execute.
    Remove the non conference regular season scores.

    Last year...

    13 against Utah.
    13 against uw.
    20 against Cal.
    21 against Air Force in the bowl.

    Qb, rb, 4 OL and 4 wr off that offense have been or will be NFL camp guys or draftees. They should have had no problems dropping 28 or more on each of those teams. None of those schools were juggernauts.

    Will your offense improve Yes. Will other teams improve defending the scheme Yes.

    3 star kids can beat 4 star kids with this offense. Unless Leach starts running the ball, 2 star kids on defense with a smart DC can outplay his 3 star kids on offense. Whatever schematic advantage you gain by using this offense is immediately given away by not using the entire playbook ~ not running the ball.

    You hired the guy on his way down, not on his rise to fame.

    If you are getting shut out by Kentucky, it will get worse. Sorry. If you give Alabama 6 turnovers they will drop 70 on you. Donít believe me

    UCLA 67
    WSU 63

    6 turnovers given to UCLA, and two special teams touchdowns too. But that is a topic for another thread. Leach did fire his special teams coach at halftime one year while at WSU.

    ďThat was last f****** year!Ē


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  16. #56
    Quote Originally Posted by manofsteel View Post
    Remove the non conference regular season scores.

    Last year...

    13 against Utah.
    13 against uw.
    20 against Cal.
    21 against Air Force in the bowl.

    Qb, rb, 4 OL and 4 wr off that offense have been or will be NFL camp guys or draftees. They should have had no problems dropping 28 or more on each of those teams. None of those schools were juggernauts.

    Will your offense improve Yes. Will other teams improve defending the scheme Yes.

    3 star kids can beat 4 star kids with this offense. Unless Leach starts running the ball, 2 star kids on defense with a smart DC can outplay his 3 star kids on offense. Whatever schematic advantage you gain by using this offense is immediately given away by not using the entire playbook ~ not running the ball.

    You hired the guy on his way down, not on his rise to fame.

    If you are getting shut out by Kentucky, it will get worse. Sorry. If you give Alabama 6 turnovers they will drop 70 on you. Donít believe me

    UCLA 67
    WSU 63

    6 turnovers given to UCLA, and two special teams touchdowns too. But that is a topic for another thread. Leach did fire his special teams coach at halftime one year while at WSU.

    ďThat was last f****** year!Ē
    I guess weíll just have to see. Outside of maybe a few offenses in the country that have elite talent, you could pick out 3-4 games every season where a team struggles to score. Florida won the damn orange bowl last year and Dan Mullen is a great offensive coach, but they still only put up 24 points on 6-7 Miami, 23 on 6-6 Missouri, got shut down by UGA. Yes UGA is elite defensively, but the talent gap between UGA and Florida is way smaller than the talent gap between WSU and UW.

    No offense works great 100% of the time. Everyone has tough nights. You can pick and choose bad performances from basically any team in America outside of Clemson, OSU, Bama, etc.

    Obviously we arenít getting Leach ďon the way up,Ē when the guy has been a P5 coach for about 20 years. We will have to wait and see if that means heís over the hill, or if heís still hungry and motivated to prove himself.

    And I would hardly blame the offensive system for that UCLA loss. As you said two of those TDs were on special teams, which we have been really strong at so far. And they did throw two picks, but four of those turnovers were fumbles. You can blame that on coaching or the players or both, but thatís not the defense exposing the scheme. Fumbles can happen just as much in any scheme.


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  17. #57
    The mutiny is coming. This is not what these kids signed up for. Leach isn't the kind of guy that kids will run thru a wall for. He will heap blame on them, kick them off the team, shame them in the media, embarrass them and maybe somewhere in all that say the staff has to coach better. Im sorry this is happening to your program. Fire him now before it gets out of hand.


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  18. #58
    IBleedMaroonDawg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by manofsteel View Post
    The mutiny is coming. This is not what these kids signed up for. Leach isn't the kind of guy that kids will run thru a wall for. He will heap blame on them, kick them off the team, shame them in the media, embarrass them and maybe somewhere in all that say the staff has to coach better. Im sorry this is happening to your program. Fire him now before it gets out of hand.
    6 post guy digging up posts?

    Smell Rebellious to me.


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  19. #59


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  20. #60
    Quote Originally Posted by DAWG61 View Post
    This is what the team is gonna do soon enough. The captain of the pirate ship is gonna walk the plank.


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  21. #61
    TrueMaroonGrind's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by manofsteel View Post
    The mutiny is coming. This is not what these kids signed up for. Leach isn't the kind of guy that kids will run thru a wall for. He will heap blame on them, kick them off the team, shame them in the media, embarrass them and maybe somewhere in all that say the staff has to coach better. Im sorry this is happening to your program. Fire him now before it gets out of hand.
    That will end well. Fire a coach, who has had success everywhere he has been, 4 games into his first season. That first season in fact had no Spring to install a system and they couldnít even have in person instruction/interaction for most of the months he has been here. Hmmm. Iíll file that under ways to destroy our programís future.


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  22. #62
    Quote Originally Posted by TrueMaroonGrind View Post
    That will end well. Fire a coach, who has had success everywhere he has been, 4 games into his first season. That first season in fact had no Spring to install a system and they couldnít even have in person instruction/interaction for most of the months he has been here. Hmmm. Iíll file that under ways to destroy our programís future.
    What do you call a 1-9 season with an offense that cant score and has its doors blown off Newsflash, 2021 will be more of the same.

    It wont get better until Leach coaches better. He has to run the ball to loosen up the coverage and take heat off his QB. If he does that, youve got something. If he doesnt, youre gonna be a 1 win team next year too.

    How many losses can stack up, where your team is not competitive at all, before its time to pull the plug?

    $5,000,000 per year for what File that under ways to destroy your program.


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  23. #63
    IBleedMaroonDawg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by manofsteel View Post
    What do you call a 1-9 season with an offense that cant score and has its doors blown off Newsflash, 2021 will be more of the same.

    It wont get better until Leach coaches better. He has to run the ball to loosen up the coverage and take heat off his QB. If he does that, youve got something. If he doesnt, youre gonna be a 1 win team next year too.

    How many losses can stack up, where your team is not competitive at all, before its time to pull the plug?

    $5,000,000 per year for what File that under ways to destroy your program.

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  24. #64
    Quote Originally Posted by manofsteel View Post
    What do you call a 1-9 season with an offense that cant score and has its doors blown off Newsflash, 2021 will be more of the same.

    It wont get better until Leach coaches better. He has to run the ball to loosen up the coverage and take heat off his QB. If he does that, youve got something. If he doesnt, youre gonna be a 1 win team next year too.

    How many losses can stack up, where your team is not competitive at all, before its time to pull the plug?

    $5,000,000 per year for what File that under ways to destroy your program.
    Leach is the best thing that ever happened to WSU football and now he sucks? Sure he lost to WA every year but they are simply better than your team. State lost to Bama every year under Mullen but that doesnít make him a bad coach. Get a life dude. Donít you have a homer board to whine on?


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