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  1. #1

    Lemonis and Defense

    Iím generally a big Lemonis supporter and think heís a very good coach, but thereís one trend over his three years here that concerns me.

    Here are our fielding percentages since 2019 and ranks within the conference:

    2019 - .972, tied for 10th
    2020 - .967, tied for 12th
    2021 - .971, 13th

    To be fair, we werenít great defensively the year before he arrived either, (.972 and tied for 12th). So maybe itís more of a recruiting issue with recent classes. But itís a big departure from the Cohen era where we were consistently at or near the top of the league in fielding.


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  2. #2
    I'm completely OK being near the bottom of the league in fielding, IF we're bringing in a lot of really good hitters. But we're only middle of the pack offensively.


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  3. #3

    Looks pretty consistent as opposed to a trend

    Quote Originally Posted by MSUDC11 View Post
    Iím generally a big Lemonis supporter and think heís a very good coach, but thereís one trend over his three years here that concerns me.

    Here are our fielding percentages since 2019 and ranks within the conference:

    2019 - .972, tied for 10th
    2020 - .967, tied for 12th
    2021 - .971, 13th

    To be fair, we werenít great defensively the year before he arrived either, (.972 and tied for 12th). So maybe itís more of a recruiting issue with recent classes. But itís a big departure from the Cohen era where we were consistently at or near the top of the league in fielding.
    However, there is no doubt some of our losses have been the results of bad defense. How many innings could we have completed without giving up runs if not for SS, 3rd base and LF errors?


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  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by patdog View Post
    I'm completely OK being near the bottom of the league in fielding, IF we're bringing in a lot of really good hitters. But we're only middle of the pack offensively.
    I think we probably were near the top in hitting the last 2 years. The problem with this order is James inability to play SS (well really inability to play any position) forced us to make a change there, Hatcher being lost at the plate this year and Landon Jordan leaving the team.

    If Hatcher is hitting his career norms and Landon jordon is still at 3rd, you probably feel much better about the offense and could live with some sloppy defense.


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  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by ronpolk View Post
    I think we probably were near the top in hitting the last 2 years. The problem with this order is James inability to play SS (well really inability to play any position) forced us to make a change there, Hatcher being lost at the plate this year and Landon Jordan leaving the team.

    If Hatcher is hitting his career norms and Landon jordon is still at 3rd, you probably feel much better about the offense and could live with some sloppy defense.
    Defense definitely hurt us in Omaha in 2019. I seem to remember TA having a goof up against Vandy that shouldíve gotten us out of the inning, and the next hitter hit a three run bomb. Then an errant pickoff throw against Louisville aided in their comeback against us, plus Mangum making a PERFECT throw to home plate to try and get the tying run, and Skelton just dropped the ball. Even so, that was a great offensive team with elite pitching in certain spots, so they got around being not great defensively.

    I have a hard time criticizing too much about 2020 defense or offense, the season being cut short doesnít make it an even comparison so no idea how it all wouldíve turned out. We started off slow but may well have turned it around, we were starting to play well right before the shutdown happened.

    This year though, no, we are not good enough offensively to be a bad fielding team. Our pitching staff is by no means perfect but their job is also made a lot harder in certain games.


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  6. #6

    Fielding % is not a good predictor of record.

    Teams with above average fielding %:
    • Alabama
    • Arkansas
    • Kentucky
    • Missouri
    • Ole Miss
    • LSU

    winning %: 0.472

    Teams with below average fielding %:
    • Auburn
    • Tennessee
    • South Carolina
    • Florida
    • Vanderbilt
    • Texas A&M
    • Georgia
    • Mississippi State

    winning %: 0.521

    Those stats include 13,429 opportunities and 324 errors over 188 games.


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  7. #7
    Half our outs are Ks. We can't even field enough of the other outs to be a decent fielding team. You will not win the CWS playing shitty defense.


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  8. #8
    Message Board Hero 8dog's Avatar
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    Cohen would tell you that all the strikeouts contribute to the fielding issues. When you dont ďengageĒ the defense with contact it can be an issie.


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  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by 8dog View Post
    Cohen would tell you that all the strikeouts contribute to the fielding issues. When you dont ďengageĒ the defense with contact it can be an issie.
    Cohen overthinks taking a shit.


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  10. #10
    Goat Version 372.0
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cooterpoot View Post
    Cohen overthinks taking a shit.
    He also nearly won the CWS, while you are posting on a message board.


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  11. #11
    There’s probably some truth to that, but wouldn’t we see the errors more evenly spread across the defense? Seems like we have two, maybe three, positions that are the problem.


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  12. #12
    Message Board Hero 8dog's Avatar
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    I think SS and 3B are always gonna be your biggest weaknesses if you are indeed weak. Its the two toughest positions to play and get a ton of the opportunities


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  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by 57stratdawg View Post
    There’s probably some truth to that, but wouldn’t we see the errors more evenly spread across the defense? Seems like we have two, maybe three, positions that are the problem.
    Iíd say the entire IF is a weak spot, with the exception of Dubrule.


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  14. #14
    Exactly. Other than shortstop and catcher, you take offense over defense almost every time.


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  15. #15
    Bullldawg78's Avatar
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    What are you worried about it's not like defense wins championships!***


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  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Russ Wheeler View Post
    He also nearly won the CWS, while you are posting on a message board.
    Almost means the same as never has. So we're even.


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  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by ronpolk View Post
    Iíd say the entire IF is a weak spot, with the exception of Dubrule.
    Logan Tanner is elite at Catcher.
    Every other position on the field is average to below average. That includes OF.


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  18. #18
    the peeper's Avatar
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    Leading the SEC in errors is a pretty bad stat though even if most of them are in the 5 & 6 hole
    The poster formerly known as: dawgebag


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  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Requiem For A Dawg View Post
    Logan Tanner is elite at Catcher.
    Every other position on the field is average to below average. That includes OF.
    I agree on Tanner. Was not trying to lump him in with the rest of the IF.


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  20. #20
    Outside of Logan Tanner, who had a terrible weekend behind the plate, and a solid Dubrule. the rest of the team is defensively challenged. Rowdy isn't a good CF. Allen is marginal in RF. Nobody in LF has been great. The infield is one of the worst in America on the left side and Hancock is still learning 1B.
    I'd be fine shaking up this staff a little. I haven't seen anything great from any of them except maybe Cheese with the catchers.


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  21. #21
    Message Board Hero 8dog's Avatar
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    I dont disagree. Im just saying that I would think a teams errors will always be heavy on the left side vs anywhere else.


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  22. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Bullldawg78 View Post
    What are you worried about it's not like defense wins championships!***
    In that movie "The Final Season", Powers Booth said "80% of this game is defense".

    We're clearly trying to defy that logic.


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  23. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Dawgg View Post
    In that movie "The Final Season", Powers Booth said "80% of this game is defense".

    We're clearly trying to defy that logic.
    "the other half is physical."***


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  24. #24

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cooterpoot View Post
    Outside of Logan Tanner, who had a terrible weekend behind the plate, and a solid Dubrule. the rest of the team is defensively challenged. Rowdy isn't a good CF. Allen is marginal in RF. Nobody in LF has been great. The infield is one of the worst in America on the left side and Hancock is still learning 1B.
    I'd be fine shaking up this staff a little. I haven't seen anything great from any of them except maybe Cheese with the catchers.
    Wow Coot - we should be near the bottom in all of college baseball then. **


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