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  1. #1

    Serious Question: Did yesterday change your opinion of Mike Leach?

    My answer is yes and it is not because of the results of the air raid or fence. My opinion has changed because I expected him to be a fiery animated person based on all of the clips that I have seen about him from previous jobs. The fact that he did not go absolutely ape shit on the punt return, and the fact that he did not go ape shit on the onside kick ( even though the penalty on the onside kick is in the rule book), has my whole led me to believe that the team heís going to take on the personality of their coach and just be lackadaisical. This is so disappointing because I was expecting so much more from him.

    nobody in their right mind who is worth a shit will come here if we have fired two coaches in a row after two years. And nobody is definitely going to come to this job with a lame duck, sorry excuse for an AD that we have in John Cohen. If we can get rid of his sorry ass, then yes we can make a change in the coaching position this year. But Keenum doesnít have the sack to do that!

    Cohen is more hated in the athletic department than LT, simply because of his political agenda and he has put people in position of power that support his agenda. And if you think I am making this up, just ask someone in that athletic department off the record what things are like. They will tell you we have regressed back to the days of Larry Templeton!


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  2. #2
    Also Cohen has put together a strong group of big donors who have his back. The "Cigar boys" have never had a tighter grip on MSU athletics.

    edited to ad: To answer your question . Yes. Before I had my doubts about him succeeding....now I know he won't.
    Last edited by thatsbaseball; 09-19-2021 at 09:35 AM.


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  3. #3
    Not at all. It just reconfirmed it. Other than 1 week after last years LSU game, Iíve never thought heíd get the job done here.


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  4. #4
    Not really. Offensively, weíre building towards 2022. If weíre still sputtering next season, itís probably not going to work.

    We have to clean up our big plays. Memphis got a defensive and special teams TD yesterday. We had 220 more yards, 14 more first downs, held the ball for 20 more minutes. Weíre just figuring out ways to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory.


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  5. #5
    No. While I did enjoy the memes I wasnít happy with the hire. Last season looked like what I expected. The spring game, or summer scrimmages didnít help my opinion. So far this season is confirming it.


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  6. #6
    My thoughts on him have changed. It has nothing to do with his offense. Itís proven to work, and with patience it may work at State.

    But it will not work under Leach. Yesterday showed me everything I needed to know about him. Itís obvious he doesnít care or heís so aloof he doesnít pay attention to defense and special teams. On that punt return he shouldíve sat his doughy ass on the 50 until the call was reviewed or stadium security escorted him out.

    If the players see that he doesnít care, then it wonít be long until they follow him.


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  7. #7
    Cleveland Steamer missouridawg's Avatar
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    No. It reaffirmed it.


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  8. #8
    No. People need to step off the ledge a little bit.

    Coaching was a big reason we lost the game yesterday. But itís one game. We lost a road game by two points, and we were only favored by three to begin with. OMís best team post-segregation also lost at Memphis.

    We have to get more consistent offensively and that is on Leach to either make adjustments or get better execution. But in a vacuum, this is is not some Maine-level inexcusable loss. Weíll see how the season plays out.


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  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by messageboardsuperhero View Post
    No. People need to step off the ledge a little bit.

    Coaching was a big reason we lost the game yesterday. But itís one game. We lost a road game by two points, and we were only favored by three to begin with. OMís best team post-segregation also lost at Memphis.

    We have to get more consistent offensively and that is on Leach to either make adjustments or get better execution. But in a vacuum, this is is not some Maine-level inexcusable loss. Weíll see how the season plays out.
    None of this matters if the head coach doesnít care.


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  10. #10

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    Yes. The non-attempt field goal 4th and goal play changed everything in this game. Points there would have kept up the momentum, after the 98 yard drive, Memphis was in the drivers seat.

    Then the non-emotion or non- challenge of that piss poor call is gonna take a long time for me to get over. Heís got to earn my respect back.


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  11. #11
    Ha ha. Keep moving those expectations. This is exactly what you guys were saying about 2021 last year.


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  12. #12
    Downvote Paranoia Msubulldogfan1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 57stratdawg View Post
    Not really. Offensively, weíre building towards 2022. If weíre still sputtering next season, itís probably not going to work.

    We have to clean up our big plays. Memphis got a defensive and special teams TD yesterday. We had 220 more yards, 14 more first downs, held the ball for 20 more minutes. Weíre just figuring out ways to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory.
    I agree with strat here.

    Weíre still very much in transition, but I feel like we might be on the verge of figuring some things out. My goal this year for the team is just scratch and claw and find a way to 6 wins.

    Next year is the year, for better or worse for ML.


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  13. #13
    I donít know much about Cohen but I have to think if heís driving his political agenda that hard then there is no way he hires someone like leach. So in that regard, I think youíre full of shit and just spouting off stuff that some buddy who has a buddy who has a brother in law that knows someone who works in the athletic department says about Cohen.

    But on LeachÖ I guess we gotta define what success is. Do I think heís gonna win 11 games here like he did at Texas tech and Washington state, no I donít. But I do imagine he will have at least a season or 2 where we win 7 or 8 games. He wonít have near about the sustained success that Mullen had.

    With that said, Iíve said numerous times I didnít like the hire and I still donít. I will admit that i was wrong about what leach does with an offense. I thought it was all big plays or 3 and out. Itís very much a ball control offense. But itís just not a very good offense. With the talent on defense in the SEC, I donít think needing everything to go right for 13 plays every drive is a very good offense. You canít dink and dunk down the field for an entire game in the SEC. itíll work for a few drives but wonít be sustainable.


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  14. #14
    No, it didnít.

    The ďair raidĒ wonít work here. This isnít the big 12 or pac10 where less than good recruiting can be overcome by a gimmick offense. You can do it in the other conferences because they donít win sht and donít take playing defense seriously.
    If you want to win in the sec you have to recruit


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  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by ronpolk View Post
    I donít know much about Cohen but I have to think if heís driving his political agenda that hard then there is no way he hires someone like leach. So in that regard, I think youíre full of shit and just spouting off stuff that some buddy who has a buddy who has a brother in law that knows someone who works in the athletic department says about Cohen.

    But on LeachÖ I guess we gotta define what success is. Do I think heís gonna win 11 games here like he did at Texas tech and Washington state, no I donít. But I do imagine he will have at least a season or 2 where we win 7 or 8 games. He wonít have near about the sustained success that Mullen had.

    With that said, Iíve said numerous times I didnít like the hire and I still donít. I will admit that i was wrong about what leach does with an offense. I thought it was all big plays or 3 and out. Itís very much a ball control offense. But itís just not a very good offense. With the talent on defense in the SEC, I donít think needing everything to go right for 13 plays every drive is a very good offense. You canít dink and dunk down the field for an entire game in the SEC. itíll work for a few drives but wonít be sustainable.
    Agree with you 98%. Only disagree because, if we keep Leach a little while, I think he could put together a 10 win season.

    Fans of other schools keep telling me Leach will pull some big upsets, but will also lose some head scratches. So, we are due some big upsets.


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  16. #16
    It has not changed my opinion. I didnít like the hire and I still donít. I donít like the air raid for the SEC, and itís an even worse fit for Mississippi State.


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  17. #17
    Yeah. Leach has never been fiery. Passive aggressive at best. Leach is too stubborn to adapt. He feels his system is infallible if executed to perfection... News flash, every offense is perfect if a block is never missed, every route is run to a Jerry Rice standard, and the QB hits the perfect read in stride everytime.

    The air raid is antiquated. It was novel and unique 15-20 years ago when most teams were built to stop the I formation. Today it's a great passing scheme or base of a multiple offense, but the air raid as we are seeing it sucks. Let's look at coaches who are currently having some level of success with it.. There are 4 P-5 air raid coaches I can think of right now.

    Leach @ State
    Riley @ Oklahoma
    Heupel @ Tennessee
    Gundy @ Oklahoma State

    Here are there D1 current rankings in pass/run and pass play percentage.

    1. Mississippi State 77.17% pass
    39. Oklahoma 52.82% pass
    106. Tennessee 40.12% pass
    122. Oklahoma State 30.07 % pass

    G5 air raid head coaches

    29. Seth Littrell - North Texas 58.16% pass
    36. Sonny Dykes-SMU 54.00% pass
    40. Dana Holgerson-Houston 52.70% pass

    D1 coordinators from air raid

    7. Robert Anae-OC Virginia 64.52% pass
    10. Matt Mumme-OC Nevada 63.43% pass
    84. Phil Longo-OC North Carolina 44.55% pass

    NFL 2020

    24. Kliff Kingsbury- HC AZ Cardinals 54.6%
    (That's right, only 8 teams ran the ball more often than the air raid offense in the NFL.)


    Stubborn mother17er.

    ETA. I watched Oklahoma State go to Boise State and win last night. The QB was 6-13 for 82 yards and they rushed for 246 and 3 TD's... Why, because Gundy cares more about winning than how he wins.
    Last edited by JoeLee'sSocks; 09-19-2021 at 10:15 AM.


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  18. #18
    No, didn't change my opinion. I think he's a solid coach who will have a good offense here. A few thoughts:

    1. We literally have the least experienced offensive line in the SEC (by number if starts at their position).

    2. Big plays are there to be had every game. This isn't some Croom "2 yards and a cloud" offense where there is zero hope.

    3. His demeanor is what it's always been, looks like to me. He doesn't look any more checked out than he did at previous stops.


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  19. #19
    He doesn't seem like the same Mike Leach he used to be that he was at tech or his Wazzu years. I don't know if being put on a social media leash changed him or what. Or the pressures of the new SEC that isn't 1996 has worn on him. We haven't even made it to SEC play and his offense continues to struggle every game. Things work better when we go tempo and push it in the 4th but yet we haven't learned and do that the whole game. The third quarter keeps being our worst quarter. That tells me a lot about the locker room. Under Mullen that's when we came out and separated from teams or got back in the game. It tells me we aren't doing much at half time. The players play harder than with Moorhead. The strategy on the field sucks or the execution of the strategy by both the players and coaches sucks. I knew when we fired moorhead we would be stuck with the next coach for a minimum of three years. With leach I keep thinking things will click with maybe a better qb or more time but people were saying the same with moorhead. I miss having a coach that takes what he has and wins and his offensive strategy doesn't need a 70 percent completion percentage to be successful or sometimes not even successful then. I hate when a qb waits to last minute to run if their is tons of open grass ahead of him. It makes the offense so easy to defend. This offense is slow just like moorheads offense is slow. Offense needs to be much faster aggressive and decisive


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  20. #20
    I was frustrated he didnít fight more on that punt return. The fact that several people were seeing TDs left on the field yesterday is encouraging to me because thatís not what was happening last year at this time. May not make me optimistic about Rogers, but it does about the receiversí ability to get open. Rogers throw downfield on that last drive was nice. I just think we need to see more of that going forward. We have to score on long plays because of how much our offense sputters within 5 yards of the goal line. Also, he was slaughtering our RB with all those dumps. Thatís not OK. Johnson has some heart and played a hell of a game for how banged up he was


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  21. #21
    Yea bro I here Cohen leads pro-abortion and pro-vaxx marches down the halls twice a week. It's crazy political agenda time all the time. Probably have BLM jerseys by next month too.


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  22. #22
    Yes. I think he saves all his effort for the press conference and Twitter now.


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  23. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Fighting Irish View Post
    nobody in their right mind who is worth a shit will come here if we have fired two coaches in a row after two years.
    This was the undervalued negative of firing a coach with a winning record after 2 years at a school where 7th in the league is the multi-year ceiling. Itís bad enough to do it once. You have to pay the next guy $5 million to take the job. But now youíre in a position where you canít fire a coach without bottoming out or you really would be screwing yourself in the coaching market.


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  24. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by JoeLee'sSocks View Post
    Yeah. Leach has never been fiery. Passive aggressive at best. Leach is too stubborn to adapt. He feels his system is infallible if executed to perfection... News flash, every offense is perfect if a block is never missed, every route is run to a Jerry Rice standard, and the QB hits the perfect read in stride everytime.

    The air raid is antiquated. It was novel and unique 15-20 years ago when most teams were built to stop the I formation. Today it's a great passing scheme or base of a multiple offense, but the air raid as we are seeing it sucks. Let's look at coaches who are currently having some level of success with it.. There are 4 P-5 air raid coaches I can think of right now.

    Leach @ State
    Riley @ Oklahoma
    Heupel @ Tennessee
    Gundy @ Oklahoma State

    Here are there D1 current rankings in pass/run and pass play percentage.

    1. Mississippi State 77.17% pass
    39. Oklahoma 52.82% pass
    106. Tennessee 40.12% pass
    122. Oklahoma State 30.07 % pass

    G5 air raid head coaches

    29. Seth Littrell - North Texas 58.16% pass
    36. Sonny Dykes-SMU 54.00% pass
    40. Dana Holgerson-Houston 52.70% pass

    D1 coordinators from air raid

    7. Robert Anae-OC Virginia 64.52% pass
    10. Matt Mumme-OC Nevada 63.43% pass
    84. Phil Longo-OC North Carolina 44.55% pass

    NFL 2020

    24. Kliff Kingsbury- HC AZ Cardinals 54.6%
    (That's right, only 8 teams ran the ball more often than the air raid offense in the NFL.)


    Stubborn mother17er.

    ETA. I watched Oklahoma State go to Boise State and win last night. The QB was 6-13 for 82 yards and they rushed for 246 and 3 TD's... Why, because Gundy cares more about winning than how he wins.
    This all day everyday. All of it. Correct. I would add, the very idea of thinking you scheme is infallible if executed perfectly is what makes it fallible. Croomís West Coast Offense is by no means a bad scheme. Itís an excellent offense that requires a Joe Montana for it to be successful. Mullen understood that at Mississippi State we can recruit tough, fast, strong and coachable kids that can be coached to win, but if the offense requires Joe Montana to be successful, MSU will rarely if ever get a prospect like that.


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  25. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by ronpolk View Post
    I donít know much about Cohen but I have to think if heís driving his political agenda that hard then there is no way he hires someone like leach. So in that regard, I think youíre full of shit and just spouting off stuff that some buddy who has a buddy who has a brother in law that knows someone who works in the athletic department says about Cohen.

    But on LeachÖ I guess we gotta define what success is. Do I think heís gonna win 11 games here like he did at Texas tech and Washington state, no I donít. But I do imagine he will have at least a season or 2 where we win 7 or 8 games. He wonít have near about the sustained success that Mullen had.

    With that said, Iíve said numerous times I didnít like the hire and I still donít. I will admit that i was wrong about what leach does with an offense. I thought it was all big plays or 3 and out. Itís very much a ball control offense. But itís just not a very good offense. With the talent on defense in the SEC, I donít think needing everything to go right for 13 plays every drive is a very good offense. You canít dink and dunk down the field for an entire game in the SEC. itíll work for a few drives but wonít be sustainable.
    I know my opinion is irrelevant here, and I get that. But I will tell you that Iíve heard some really concerning things about Cohen and the disconnect and outright disdain many have for him in the football program. And itís not some he said, she said stuff. Itís coming directly from a friend inside the MSU athletic department that has zero reason to lie about it. Heís a die hard MSU fan, that would pump sunshine if at all possible. Especially when talking to me, because he knows (obviously) Iím an Ole Miss fan. But I think there are some legitimate issues that he canít sugarcoat or spin. And I know a thing or two about issues within an athletic department. Iíve witnessed them my entire life in Oxford, lol.


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  26. #26
    Anyone naÔve enough to believe Cohen's totally botching the handling of that silly scarf tweet didn't cause hard feelings within the athletic department (Leach included) has their head in a dark place.


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  27. #27
    Itsaboutus's Avatar
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    Not really. Everything shows that we cant expect much until year 3. But in the SEC itís more like year 4. Losing to Memphis just hurts our pride, I donít think this loss hurts the program too bad though, look at Ole Miss, nobody knows more about losing to Memphis more than them and they seem to be doing just fine.


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  28. #28
    Message Board Hero 8dog's Avatar
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    4 years Good Lord. Its 2021. Nothing should take 4 years. This thing has so many similar traits to the Croom era.


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  29. #29
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    Somewhat. At this point, I'm not worried about wins. I need to see some serious, serious improvement in this team by the end of the year.

    Mullen had his South Alabama moments BUT you could see improvement in the team from season beginning to end. You did not see it at all with JoeMo and we made stupid penalties all season long, especially at the OL positions.

    Yesterday was seriously similar on the OL. I think there is a reason why Cole Smith and Scott Lashly are not starting at their previous schools. They may have the ability to play that position but not the discipline!

    I'm ready to go to the #2 guy, take my lumps for lack of experience for getting someone else to take over but I have the terrible idea that we have no one to sub for those guys because of a lack of experience or competent players

    If you just make our offensive line play just clean with no penalties we win that game. We only punted after holding or personal foul penalties. The rest of the team played well enough for us to win and we never have the punt take place for the screw job.

    Mike better clean the penalties up or he may be at the beach come December.


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  30. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by 57stratdawg View Post
    Weíre just figuring out ways to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory.
    This describes MSU over the last 50+ years.


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  31. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by Fighting Irish View Post
    My answer is yes and it is not because of the results of the air raid or fence. My opinion has changed because I expected him to be a fiery animated person based on all of the clips that I have seen about him from previous jobs. The fact that he did not go absolutely ape shit on the punt return, and the fact that he did not go ape shit on the onside kick ( even though the penalty on the onside kick is in the rule book), has my whole led me to believe that the team heís going to take on the personality of their coach and just be lackadaisical. This is so disappointing because I was expecting so much more from him.

    nobody in their right mind who is worth a shit will come here if we have fired two coaches in a row after two years. And nobody is definitely going to come to this job with a lame duck, sorry excuse for an AD that we have in John Cohen. If we can get rid of his sorry ass, then yes we can make a change in the coaching position this year. But Keenum doesnít have the sack to do that!

    Cohen is more hated in the athletic department than LT, simply because of his political agenda and he has put people in position of power that support his agenda. And if you think I am making this up, just ask someone in that athletic department off the record what things are like. They will tell you we have regressed back to the days of Larry Templeton!
    Iíve actually witnessed you going off the rails. If that is what you expect from a coach, no thanks.


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  32. #32
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    That game only reinforced the doubts I had when he was hired. He is focused on only 1 thing when he's on the sidelines and that's calling the next underneath short pass for a 4 yd gain and then what to call when we get an offensive line penalty which turns out to be a throw to the last check down which is a RB for a 3 yd gain


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  33. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by Dawgzilla View Post
    Agree with you 98%. Only disagree because, if we keep Leach a little while, I think he could put together a 10 win season.

    Fans of other schools keep telling me Leach will pull some big upsets, but will also lose some head scratches. So, we are due some big upsets.
    Just wait until State beats Alabama October 16, ie, The Third Saturday In October.


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  34. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by the peeper View Post
    That game only reinforced the doubts I had when he was hired. He is focused on only 1 thing when he's on the sidelines and that's calling the next underneath short pass for a 4 yd gain and then what to call when we get an offensive line penalty which turns out to be a throw to the last check down which is a RB for a 3 yd gain
    I.E., he did exactly what Memphis wanted him to do.


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  35. #35
    this would make sense "IF" Memphis was actually good... The +3 line wasn't a reflection of 2 good teams... it was the confirmation of the opposite... Two bad teams, coin flip...


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  36. #36
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    Yes. Itís not going to work. Hope he proves me wrong.


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  37. #37
    the air raid didn't even 'work' in the big 12/pac 12... 2 much lesser confs... it won some games it shouldn't have... and it lost some games it shouldn't have... it is what we thought it was... he's a 58% career winning % coach because he wins 58% of his games... I think the SEC will turn that into about a 52% before we rip that bandaid...


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  38. #38
    Yes, because I now think heís ready to go to the house.


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  39. #39
    Every time I come here I get affirmation that no one here is ever a happy fan of our football team. Do y’all ever enjoy this? The majority of our fan base is made up of negative Nancy’s while ole miss is consistently more optimistic. It’s just a damn sport. Relax, support, enjoy.


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  40. #40
    No. He has been precisely the same coach since the day he stepped on campus. This is what we wanted, or at least, it's all we could get.


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