Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 40 of 49
  1. #1

    Perfect example why eye witnesses and even video evidence is not actually truth.

    Reading this board since yesterday everyone saw the same pictures, most of us multiple times, and even as group of biased people (meaning we are all mostly rooting for MSU) we can't agree on what happened. I know what I believe and it seems the SEC mostly does also, but even us SPSers can't agree if the ball was downed or at least the play was ruled down.

    Just a curious example of human perception and behavior.
    Last edited by Bulldog Bruce; 09-19-2021 at 06:51 PM.


    0 out of 3 sixpackers like this post
    Real Nattys | Fake Nattys Yes | No

  2. #2
    If someone thinks that wasn't a downed football they're a moron.


    19 out of 24 sixpackers like this post
    Real Nattys | Fake Nattys Yes | No

  3. #3
    I think we all agree on what happened. Its right there on video for us all to keep watching. We disagree on rules interpretations.

    We can all see Emerson briefly take a knee and touch the ball. We just have some disagreement as to whether his action was sufficient to down the ball and end the play.

    We can all see the ref run in, throw a bean bag, and waive his hand over his head. We can't tell if he blew his whistle, but I think we generally agree with the SEC office that the play should have been dead right there.


    2 out of 2 sixpackers like this post
    Real Nattys | Fake Nattys Yes | No

  4. #4
    It depends on what the meaning of the word ‘is’ is. If the—if he—if ‘is’ means is and never has been, that is not—that is one thing. If it means there is none, that was a completely true statement. …


    3 out of 3 sixpackers like this post
    Real Nattys | Fake Nattys Yes | No

  5. #5
    Our coaching staff, Mike Leach, stated in stories I read that they thought the call was correct and that is why they did not make a big stink. So they disagree and many comments over the past few days said something similar. Interpretation and perception are exactly what I am talking about. Some people don't see the knee down with hand on ball as possession and others do even though we watch the same video.

    On the whistle question Why would any ref waive their hands to stop the clock and not blow the whistle? The whistle blow is insignificant even per the SEC.

    So to me there are two facts that I think are indisputable. One, the Bulldog player possessed the ball. Two, the one ref marked the play dead and therefore it was. Some people on this board do not agree with those facts.

    Just saying that is interesting.


    2 out of 2 sixpackers like this post
    Real Nattys | Fake Nattys Yes | No

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Bulldog Bruce View Post
    Our coaching staff, Mike Leach, stated in stories I read that they thought the call was correct and that is why they did not make a big stink. So they disagree and many comments over the past few days said something similar. Interpretation and perception are exactly what I am talking about. Some people don't see the knee down with hand on ball as possession and others do even though we watch the same video.

    On the whistle question Why would any ref waive their hands to stop the clock and not blow the whistle? The whistle blow is insignificant even per the SEC.

    So to me there are two facts that I think are indisputable. One, the Bulldog player possessed the ball. Two, the one ref marked the play dead and therefore it was. Some people on this board do not agree with those facts.

    Just saying that is interesting.
    The problem is none of that really matters during the game. When the Memphis players are at breakneck speed to kick the PT on a very odd play, if you have a gun you start firing it in the air, at the very least you call a damn timeout so everybody gets their stuff together. We lost the game because of this (and other things too which makes it worse). That can’t happen ever at this level of college football. What’s next?


    1 out of 1 sixpackers like this post
    Real Nattys | Fake Nattys Yes | No

  7. #7
    One sentence hot takes.
    Join Date
    Nov 2016
    Posts
    6,679
    Quote Originally Posted by DAWG61 View Post
    If someone thinks that wasn't a downed football they're a moron.
    That was not a downed ball. Even the SEC said so in their statement. Mike Leach said it was not a downed ball in his post game.


    2 out of 6 sixpackers like this post
    Real Nattys | Fake Nattys Yes | No

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Leeshouldveflanked View Post
    That was not a downed ball. Even the SEC said so in their statement. Mike Leach said it was not a downed ball in his post game.
    After that play I’m not sure the SEC and Leach should be your best two sources.


    1 out of 1 sixpackers like this post
    Real Nattys | Fake Nattys Yes | No

  9. #9
    PineGroveBully's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Pull Tite, MS
    Posts
    8,514
    I don’t think that the statement said it was downed( I think it was), they just admitted that it should have been ruled dead after the ref’s signal, at which point our players took their eye off the ball.
    When I lose my cool other guys go looking for it. - PGB


    2 out of 2 sixpackers like this post
    Real Nattys | Fake Nattys Yes | No

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Dawgzilla View Post
    We can all see the ref run in, throw a bean bag
    Just want to clarify that the bean bag means nothing in terms of the play being dead. I’ve seen several people mention the bag - he’s just marking the spot we touched the ball.

    Waving his hands, now that’s where the play should have ended.


    1 out of 1 sixpackers like this post
    Real Nattys | Fake Nattys Yes | No

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Leeshouldveflanked View Post
    That was not a downed ball. Even the SEC said so in their statement. Mike Leach said it was not a downed ball in his post game.
    I keep seeing people say he didn’t “have possession” by merely touching it. It’s not like he put his index finger on it and that’s it. He appeared to have his whole hand on it. If he gripped it, would that not be controlling it and possessing it? Just because I’m he didn’t pick it up doesn’t mean he didn’t possess it. I watched it live, and have seen the replay enough until I am sick of it. It was a “bang-bang” type play. He probably would have been credited as having possessed it by most everyone if he left his hand on it (“gripped”) for longer than half a second.

    The rules of football change so much based on where you are on the field and what you’re doing. Example: You are running the ball and dive in the air for the end zone. As long as the ball crosses the plane, it is a touchdown even if someone knocks it out of your hands before you touch the ground. You can also dive and cross the plane and land out of bounds, but still get the TD. Now if a receiver jumps up in the end zone on a passing play and catches the ball, having complete control, and gets hit, pushing them back 3 yards before they hit the ground, and they land 1 inch out of bounds, it’s not a touchdown.

    onside kicks. If it goes 10 yards, the kicking team can touch it and it not be down, but rather possessed. If it is a normal kickoff, the same rules apply except the returner can call fair catch before it hits the ground and now it will be downed wherever it comes to rest or when the kicking team downs it by “possessing, not just touching it”. But on a punt, the only way a kicking team can get the ball back, regardless of distance is if it hits a receiving team player first. A tipped (or partially blocked) punt isn’t a live ball because it happens behind the line of scrimmage.

    Nuance rules like this is why you see frustrated guys with their wives/girlfriends/kids in the stands who are questioning why they brought them to the game. Trying to explain all the different rules and possibilities is like I before E, except after C....except that only 44 words follow that rule and 923 break it.


    4 out of 4 sixpackers like this post
    Real Nattys | Fake Nattys Yes | No

  12. #12
    One sentence hot takes.
    Join Date
    Nov 2016
    Posts
    6,679
    Quote Originally Posted by kired View Post
    Just want to clarify that the bean bag means nothing in terms of the play being dead. I’ve seen several people mention the bag - he’s just marking the spot we touched the ball.

    Waving his hands, now that’s where the play should have ended.
    ^^^^This^^^^ Also the Memphis player said they had practiced this same situation in practice where the ball is not downed. You are supposed to be coach to kneel down and wait for ref to blow whistle, when ref blows whistle you hand him the ball…
    Last edited by Leeshouldveflanked; 09-20-2021 at 06:58 AM.


    Real Nattys | Fake Nattys Yes | No

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Leeshouldveflanked View Post
    ^^^^This^^^^ Also the Memphis player said they had practiced this same situation in practice where the ball is not downed. You are supposed to be coach to kneel down and wait for ref to blow whistle, when ref blows whistle you hand him the ball…
    Yep. I am an official. 13 years. A back judge actually. The reason you throw a bean bag on a punt return is to mark the basic spot in case you need to come back because a block in the back, or an idiot just picks up the ball and runs all the way down the damn field with it. Also, one of the first things we teach young officals is to be decisive. When you are indecisive, no one belives you. When the BJ gave that half ass kill the clock call, he should have gotten on the whistle, killed they play, and told R he has the spot, 1st and 10. He froze in a big moment and ddint have the balls to do it. He honestly sould be fired over that.


    11 out of 11 sixpackers like this post
    Real Nattys | Fake Nattys Yes | No

  14. #14
    HumpDawgy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    North Floridy
    Posts
    3,066
    So why do referees blow the ball dead immediately when a punt cover guy watches a punt roll and puts his hand on it? This happens about 99% of the time. The cover guy does not always pick it up and hand it to the ref and that is not in the rule book. 99% of the time the ball is blown dead on the touch.

    I have never liked the rule for punts and wish it would change much like they did with the stupid halo rule. The return team is given a chance to possess the ball without fear of a safety or loss of possession if the ball touches a punt cover guy. I hate that. We could have tackled #4 for a safety or forced a fumble at our 1 yard line and the ball would go back to them where Emerson touched it. That is a bad rule.

    Hopefully going forward our guys pick up the ball and run it off the field to the ball boy and if any midget punt returners try and pick that ball up, they end up looking out the ear hole of their helmet.


    2 out of 2 sixpackers like this post
    Real Nattys | Fake Nattys Yes | No

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Leeshouldveflanked View Post
    That was not a downed ball. Even the SEC said so in their statement. Mike Leach said it was not a downed ball in his post game.
    They should have reviewed it anyways. That's all I am going to say and move on to this Saturday. Can't change anything and the officiating in the SEC will not change.


    2 out of 2 sixpackers like this post
    Real Nattys | Fake Nattys Yes | No

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by HumpDawgy View Post
    So why do referees blow the ball dead immediately when a punt cover guy watches a punt roll and puts his hand on it? This happens about 99% of the time. The cover guy does not always pick it up and hand it to the ref and that is not in the rule book. 99% of the time the ball is blown dead on the touch.

    I have never liked the rule for punts and wish it would change much like they did with the stupid halo rule. The return team is given a chance to possess the ball without fear of a safety or loss of possession if the ball touches a punt cover guy. I hate that. We could have tackled #4 for a safety or forced a fumble at our 1 yard line and the ball would go back to them where Emerson touched it. That is a bad rule.

    Hopefully going forward our guys pick up the ball and run it off the field to the ball boy and if any midget punt returners try and pick that ball up, they end up looking out the ear hole of their helmet.
    The 99% scenario you mention usually involves a returner that has conceded and left the area of the ball. The ball can be whistled dead under a couple of circumstances. If the ball is possessed by the punting team is one of them. If the ball rolls dead is another.

    What people keep missing when they talk about us "downing the ball" from the picture that was circulated is that:

    - that action doesn't kill the ball in this case because he was touching for less than a second and didn't stop momentum of the ball completely.
    - as soon as he took his hand off the ball, it was still moving.
    - having his knee down does not matter. The original toucher had his elbow down when touching the ball to keep it out of the endzone. The ball has to be possessed, not touched.

    It was a colossal brain fart on our part. Suggesting otherwise is just looking for excuses.

    The ref still blew the call because he erroneously waved his arms to kill the play. This is the version of events in the SEC "apology letter." They also blew it because two #4's were on the field. But we didn't down the ball and kill the play. It should be obvious to anyone who takes the time to watch the replay instead of just looking at that misleading picture floating around.


    0 out of 3 sixpackers like this post
    Real Nattys | Fake Nattys Yes | No

  17. #17
    HumpDawgy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    North Floridy
    Posts
    3,066
    Did #4 not concede and leave the area of the ball when he faked catching it away from the ball? By your explanation, any return team player can bolt back into the picture and grab it even after the punt team touches it as long as some dubmass ref doesn't blow his whistle (he is allowed to wave his arms however). So if we coach one of our toughest guys to go out and lay out any returner trying to do what #4 did, I guess that makes this game safer too. Drebin, I know you are explaining the rules as written, but if coaches are coaching their returners to do this, that will not end well for them.

    Also, what is the rule for having 14 players on the field during the play (and multiple morons posing as referees)?

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Bullshit.JPG 
Views:	31 
Size:	72.2 KB 
ID:	21923


    6 out of 6 sixpackers like this post
    Real Nattys | Fake Nattys Yes | No

  18. #18
    The ball was still moving after he stood up. How can you down a ball if it's still moving? The play was dead because the official inadvertently signaled it dead, not because the ball was actually downed.


    1 out of 6 sixpackers like this post
    Real Nattys | Fake Nattys Yes | No

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by HumpDawgy View Post
    Did #4 not concede and leave the area of the ball when he faked catching it away from the ball? By your explanation, any return team player can bolt back into the picture and grab it even after the punt team touches it as long as some dubmass ref doesn't blow his whistle (he is allowed to wave his arms however). So if we coach one of our toughest guys to go out and lay out any returner trying to do what #4 did, I guess that makes this game safer too. Drebin, I know you are explaining the rules as written, but if coaches are coaching their returners to do this, that will not end well for them.

    Also, what is the rule for having 14 players on the field during the play (and multiple morons posing as referees)?



    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Bullshit.JPG 
Views:	31 
Size:	72.2 KB 
ID:	21923
    The returner peeled back and made a run at the ball as soon as our guy batted it back from the goal line. It's pretty clear from the replay. So no, they didn't concede anything there.

    It's a risky play for them. One of our guys could lay him out like you said. He could fumble it trying to pick it up. It was a risk he took and it paid off. And if the ref hadn't erroneously came in with the stop the clock signal, and if they hadn't had two #4s on the field, it would have been completely legal.

    As for the players on the field, I'm not excusing it. I said that the refs blew it for a couple of reasons. I know they flagged Memphis for a sideline warning at some point, which is the call typically for something like that.
    Last edited by Drebin; 09-20-2021 at 08:52 AM.


    0 out of 2 sixpackers like this post
    Real Nattys | Fake Nattys Yes | No

  20. #20

    I would think the hand signals are more definitive than hearing a whistle....

    Quote Originally Posted by Bulldog Bruce View Post
    Our coaching staff, Mike Leach, stated in stories I read that they thought the call was correct and that is why they did not make a big stink. So they disagree and many comments over the past few days said something similar. Interpretation and perception are exactly what I am talking about. Some people don't see the knee down with hand on ball as possession and others do even though we watch the same video.

    On the whistle question Why would any ref waive their hands to stop the clock and not blow the whistle? The whistle blow is insignificant even per the SEC.

    So to me there are two facts that I think are indisputable. One, the Bulldog player possessed the ball. Two, the one ref marked the play dead and therefore it was. Some people on this board do not agree with those facts.

    Just saying that is interesting.
    The reason for this is with enough crowd noise a player might not hear a whistle. Also fans have been known to bring whistles into the stadium. But there is NO MISTAKING the sight of a referee running in and waving his arms over his head and there is no mistaking that this is indeed what the back judge did. Whether or not the ball was legally downed is irrelevant however I will say that what happened in this play is routinely ruled down and the referee who made the call CONFIRMS this. What pisses me off though is the fact that there are people in Bham who's only job in that instance was to intercede and make sure they get it right and they did NOTHING!!! What pisses me off the most though is that we have a well paid coaching staff who also saw what happened including people in the booth and they did NOTHING!!! Because of this I have to question their engagement in the game and must question if that is a consequence of our $5M head coach's lack of engagement and also the reason why we have undisciplined, sloppy, penalty ridden players particularly on offense.
    Last edited by thekimmer; 09-20-2021 at 09:02 AM.


    3 out of 3 sixpackers like this post
    Real Nattys | Fake Nattys Yes | No

  21. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by HumpDawgy View Post
    Did #4 not concede and leave the area of the ball when he faked catching it away from the ball? By your explanation, any return team player can bolt back into the picture and grab it even after the punt team touches it as long as some dubmass ref doesn't blow his whistle (he is allowed to wave his arms however). So if we coach one of our toughest guys to go out and lay out any returner trying to do what #4 did, I guess that makes this game safer too. Drebin, I know you are explaining the rules as written, but if coaches are coaching their returners to do this, that will not end well for them.

    Also, what is the rule for having 14 players on the field during the play (and multiple morons posing as referees)?

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Bullshit.JPG 
Views:	31 
Size:	72.2 KB 
ID:	21923
    I went back & watched the end zone angle of this, & #41 there is actually on the punt team while the other two guys are on the white & not actually on the field.

    Memphis never had extra players on the field.

    This abortion of officiating comes down to 2 things:

    1. The play was blown dead. Regardless of what people say about the punt being downed or not, the play was waived dead. End of story.

    2. There were two number 4s on the field that would've created a 5 yards penalty & 4th & 1 at mid field


    2 out of 2 sixpackers like this post
    Real Nattys | Fake Nattys Yes | No

  22. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Bulldog Bruce View Post
    Our coaching staff, Mike Leach, stated in stories I read that they thought the call was correct and that is why they did not make a big stink. So they disagree and many comments over the past few days said something similar. Interpretation and perception are exactly what I am talking about. Some people don't see the knee down with hand on ball as possession and others do even though we watch the same video.

    On the whistle question Why would any ref waive their hands to stop the clock and not blow the whistle? The whistle blow is insignificant even per the SEC.

    So to me there are two facts that I think are indisputable. One, the Bulldog player possessed the ball. Two, the one ref marked the play dead and therefore it was. Some people on this board do not agree with those facts.

    Just saying that is interesting.
    I'm really just arguing semantics with you. You are suggesting that we can't agree on the video evidence. I think we all agree on whats on the video, there is just disagreement over how the rules apply to what happened.

    You say it is a "fact" that Emerson possessed the ball. In order for that to be a fact, we have to know what "possession" means under the rules. That is where the disagreement comes in. It isn't perception or video angles or bias. Its just a question of whether his action constitutes possession.

    I'm not sure anyone is still disputing your second fact.

    Leach did not have the best angle to see what was happening on the field, so I don't blame him for accepting the result, but someone should have been in his ear pressing him for a timeout. And the replay booth absolutely should have buzzed down.

    I agree that whether the ref was blowing his whistle doesn't matter, just stating that was an area of disagreement. He was throwing a bean bag and raising his arm, so how was he going to get his whistle in his mouth? I agree it shouldn't matter under the rules, its just that our players downing the ball weren't looking the refs direction, and if they didn't hear a whistle then they shouldn't assume the play is over.


    2 out of 2 sixpackers like this post
    Real Nattys | Fake Nattys Yes | No

  23. #23
    Mike Leach is proving to be a damn fool of a coach. The ball was down. Both kneeling on it and by the ref blowing it dead. Mike Leach is the same damn fool that said he doesn't want extra recruiting staff and an IPF too. He's going to be fired after next season. The guy just wants our money.


    1 out of 1 sixpackers like this post
    Real Nattys | Fake Nattys Yes | No

  24. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Cooterpoot View Post
    Mike Leach is proving to be a damn fool of a coach. The ball was down. Both kneeling on it and by the ref blowing it dead. Mike Leach is the same damn fool that said he doesn't want extra recruiting staff and an IPF too. He's going to be fired after next season. The guy just wants our money.
    Maybe. It's completely fair to describe our game day coaching staff as being completely disaorganized after Saturday. An organized unit has jobs delegated to coaches that prevent the punt issue from happening


    Real Nattys | Fake Nattys Yes | No

  25. #25

    Join Date
    Nov 2017
    Location
    Buckhead Atlanta, GA
    Posts
    151
    There is a big difference in the still picture of the player kneeling with the football, and the live video footage. When I saw the live replay, I did think that the player was taking a big risk by just popping up, placing his hand on the ball while on his knee, and then walking off... It was almost as if he wanted to be cool about it because he did not look at the ball while kneeling, he just looked straight ahead. His motion was so quick that it could have been unnoticed by the ref (possession of the ball while on his knee).

    My bet is that the whistle did not blow, because the Memphis player lurked, picked up the ball, and ran.

    It was a smart play by Memphis, and a poor play by MSU. Most of the time, I do see the punt return player pick up the ball and then hand it to the ref... I hope that this is something that we do moving forward (hand the ball to the ref in every instance - fumble recovery, downing a punt, scoring a TD, etc.).

    Everyone makes mistakes, so it's up to you to be deliberate in your intentions on the field.

    I remember years ago the ref calling a fumble on Walter Payton against the Atlanta Falcons. Payton had a bad habit of popping up immediately after a tackle and leaving the ball on the turf. The Falcons one time (while Payton was in a pile, hidden from the ref) yelled fumble after he jumped up, and covered the ball. The ball was awarded to Atlanta, and Payton was livid. If you followed Payton closely, you knew that this was his trait and realized it was not a fumble. However, that was a good play by Atlanta, and a lesson learned by Walter Payton.

    This situation seems very similar.


    Real Nattys | Fake Nattys Yes | No

  26. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by AtlantaDawg View Post
    There is a big difference in the still picture of the player kneeling with the football, and the live video footage. When I saw the live replay, I did think that the player was taking a big risk by just popping up, placing his hand on the ball while on his knee, and then walking off... It was almost as if he wanted to be cool about it because he did not look at the ball while kneeling, he just looked straight ahead. His motion was so quick that it could have been unnoticed by the ref (possession of the ball while on his knee).

    My bet is that the whistle did not blow, because the Memphis player lurked, picked up the ball, and ran.

    It was a smart play by Memphis, and a poor play by MSU. Most of the time, I do see the punt return player pick up the ball and then hand it to the ref... I hope that this is something that we do moving forward (hand the ball to the ref in every instance - fumble recovery, downing a punt, scoring a TD, etc.).

    Everyone makes mistakes, so it's up to you to be deliberate in your intentions on the field.

    I remember years ago the ref calling a fumble on Walter Payton against the Atlanta Falcons. Payton had a bad habit of popping up immediately after a tackle and leaving the ball on the turf. The Falcons one time (while Payton was in a pile, hidden from the ref) yelled fumble after he jumped up, and covered the ball. The ball was awarded to Atlanta, and Payton was livid. If you followed Payton closely, you knew that this was his trait and realized it was not a fumble. However, that was a good play by Atlanta, and a lesson learned by Walter Payton.

    This situation seems very similar.
    did you see the ref waive his hands over his head?


    Real Nattys | Fake Nattys Yes | No

  27. #27
    the peeper's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Lurking in the shadows...
    Posts
    7,462
    and throw the beanbag and go for the whistle.......
    The poster formerly known as: dawgebag


    Real Nattys | Fake Nattys Yes | No

  28. #28
    They blow it dead to keep shit like this from happening. You do things as officials to avoid crazy shit like this from even happening.


    Real Nattys | Fake Nattys Yes | No

  29. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by thekimmer View Post
    The reason for this is with enough crowd noise a player might not hear a whistle. Also fans have been known to bring whistles into the stadium. But there is NO MISTAKING the sight of a referee running in and waving his arms over his head and there is no mistaking that this is indeed what the back judge did. Whether or not the ball was legally downed is irrelevant however I will say that what happened in this play is routinely ruled down and the referee who made the call CONFIRMS this. What pisses me off though is the fact that there are people in Bham who's only job in that instance was to intercede and make sure they get it right and they did NOTHING!!! What pisses me off the most though is that we have a well paid coaching staff who also saw what happened including people in the booth and they did NOTHING!!! Because of this I have to question their engagement in the game and must question if that is a consequence of our $5M head coach's lack of engagement and also the reason why we have undisciplined, sloppy, penalty ridden players particularly on offense.
    In college officiating they try no to use the whistle. The play kills itself, not the whistle. That's the thought process.


    Real Nattys | Fake Nattys Yes | No

  30. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by HumpDawgy View Post
    By your explanation, any return team player can bolt back into the picture and grab it even after the punt team touches it
    Yes, any return team player can grab the ball and run with it. Even if he muffs it, or fumbles it during the return and we recover it - return team gets possession at the farthest point the punted ball was touched by the kicking team. I'm surprised we don't see it attempted more often.

    I've seen it in high school a few times - short punt that hits a player on the kicking team. Someone from the return team tries to grab it but fumbles, kicking team recovers and fans lose their minds thinking it should be the kicking teams ball. But it's not. It's basically a free play for the return team if the ball touches a player from the kicking team.


    Real Nattys | Fake Nattys Yes | No

  31. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by Bulldog Bruce View Post
    Reading this board since yesterday everyone saw the same pictures, most of us multiple times, and even as group of biased people (meaning we are all mostly rooting for MSU) we can't agree on what happened. I know what I believe and it seems the SEC mostly does also, but even us SPSers can't agree if the ball was downed or at least the play was ruled down.

    Just a curious example of human perception and behavior.
    999 times out of 1000 the back judge would rule that down. You are full of crap or you just have not watched college football for more than a few years if you don't believe and if you have not seen that called down many times before. Name one time you have seen that called like it was Saturday. Sure if you review it you could make a case as to why the back judge didn't call it down soon enough, and THEN DID, allowing the play to continue anyway after waving the play dead which caused both our players to stop on the play and the Memphis offensive line to run on the field. There are no perceptions, thats what happened and the SEC agreed with that.


    1 out of 3 sixpackers like this post
    Real Nattys | Fake Nattys Yes | No

  32. #32
    No, he wouldn't have. Which is why the back judge so quickly stopped his signaling of the play dead. He realized the ball was still moving and he'd 17ed up. If the movement of the ball is stopped, then yes, all the return team has to do is touch the ball and it's dead, that's the play you've seen hundreds of times. But the ball didn't stop moving until after our player stood up. It didn't matter though because the play was dead when the official inadvertently signaled it dead.


    0 out of 1 sixpackers like this post
    Real Nattys | Fake Nattys Yes | No

  33. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by PineGroveBully View Post
    I don’t think that the statement said it was downed( I think it was), they just admitted that it should have been ruled dead after the ref’s signal, at which point our players took their eye off the ball.
    This is correct…

    By any objective call, the ball was not rolling around, it was not bouncing and gaining/losing yards and it was not doing that because we stopped it from doing so. That is usually a key for refs to stop the play, which the ref signaled the play was stopped. You can argue that we should have picked the ball up and I don’t disagree with that. But the ref signaling the play dead should have needed it


    Real Nattys | Fake Nattys Yes | No

  34. #34

    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Cypress, TX
    Posts
    1,783
    Quote Originally Posted by Bulldog Bruce View Post
    Reading this board since yesterday everyone saw the same pictures, most of us multiple times, and even as group of biased people (meaning we are all mostly rooting for MSU) we can't agree on what happened. I know what I believe and it seems the SEC mostly does also, but even us SPSers can't agree if the ball was downed or at least the play was ruled down.

    Just a curious example of human perception and behavior.
    When a an on the field official does this



    The play is dead. Right there... Doesn't matter if a player has the ball or not.

    And in the context of our play, it means the back judge thought the punt was downed.

    Period.

    That Leach didn't see that one guy, I'm not blaming him. Someone for MSU should have. But the error was with the Back judge (for not admitting he called the pay dead) and the SEC office for not reviewing the pay.

    It's also the back judge that missed 2 players with the same number, which gives us a 1 st down.


    4 out of 4 sixpackers like this post
    Real Nattys | Fake Nattys Yes | No

  35. #35
    It was down and the official stopped play….end of discussion


    1 out of 1 sixpackers like this post
    Real Nattys | Fake Nattys Yes | No

  36. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by patdog View Post
    No, he wouldn't have. Which is why the back judge so quickly stopped his signaling of the play dead. He realized the ball was still moving and he'd 17ed up. If the movement of the ball is stopped, then yes, all the return team has to do is touch the ball and it's dead, that's the play you've seen hundreds of times. But the ball didn't stop moving until after our player stood up. It didn't matter though because the play was dead when the official inadvertently signaled it dead.
    It didn't stop moving but I thought that the player who 'downed' it imparted his own motion on the ball. I know one dang thing though. I would hope that, at least for the rest of this season, we don't EVER see another half-assed effort at downing the football after a punt. If anything I would go overboard just to show up the SEC office of officials. I would have players not just pick it up but wrap both arms around it and take it to the sideline with them.


    2 out of 2 sixpackers like this post
    Real Nattys | Fake Nattys Yes | No

  37. #37
    The discussion on possession I can relate to a few rules. In Baseball the rule about a pitcher in a stretch having to come to a stop. It used to be interpreted as a pause and that brought in the issue of time. So the pitcher at some point had to come to a pause of at least a second or so. Then a "physicist" pointed out if there is a change in direction, there had to be a stop in there somewhere. So a fluid down motion with a change in direction is accepted as a stop. That is how the rule is umpired now.

    In Football when crossing the goal line the ball is immediately dead. So if the runner or receiver has possession crossing the line it doesn't matter what happens after that. There is no time parameter for possession in the end zone. If the player has control of the ball, which kneeling by it and putting your full hand on top of it is, it doesn't matter the time he has that control. So the instance he has control the play is dead and the ref should call it dead. That's why a catch has all that extra language about a football move. They wanted a time parameter in there to call it a completion. Therefore the frame stop picture is valid in that instance of time there is possession and the play is dead.
    Last edited by Bulldog Bruce; 09-20-2021 at 12:29 PM.


    1 out of 1 sixpackers like this post
    Real Nattys | Fake Nattys Yes | No

  38. #38
    It has to stop moving. As in, actually not moving. If a player imparting his own motion on the ball killed the play, then it would have been dead when the first player batted the ball back from the goal line.


    0 out of 1 sixpackers like this post
    Real Nattys | Fake Nattys Yes | No

  39. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by patdog View Post
    The ball was still moving after he stood up. How can you down a ball if it's still moving? The play was dead because the official inadvertently signaled it dead, not because the ball was actually downed.
    Bravo. I think about 5% of our fanbase, including everybody I know, simply does not understand why our players were the ones at fault for not properly taking possession of the punt.

    PICK THE DAMN BALL UP AND HAND IT TO THE OFFICIAL NEXT TIME......


    1 out of 3 sixpackers like this post
    Real Nattys | Fake Nattys Yes | No

  40. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by Dawgzilla View Post
    I think we all agree on what happened. Its right there on video for us all to keep watching. We disagree on rules interpretations.

    We can all see Emerson briefly take a knee and touch the ball. We just have some disagreement as to whether his action was sufficient to down the ball and end the play.

    We can all see the ref run in, throw a bean bag, and waive his hand over his head. We can't tell if he blew his whistle, but I think we generally agree with the SEC office that the play should have been dead right there.

    The play shouldn't have been dead there according to the rules of possessing (downing) a punt, but it should have been dead there because the official (mistakenly) waived the play dead. Either way, our special teams HAS to do better next time.


    Real Nattys | Fake Nattys Yes | No

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
SixPack Sponsors






Disclaimer: Neither this message board nor its rules and regulations are associated with Mississippi State University or any other Mississippi State sports website. Neither this message board nor its rules and regulations are associated with Scottish & Newcastle PLC d/b/a Bulldog Strong Ale. The views and opinions expressed herein are strictly those of the post author. The contents of this page have not been reviewed or approved by SixPackSpeak.com. The interactive nature of the SixPackSpeak.com Discussion Forums makes it impossible for SixPackSpeak.com to assume responsibility for any of the content, including photographs and/or images, posted by participants. The ideas, suggestions, thoughts, recommendations, opinions, comments, advice, and observations made by participants of the interactive Discussion Forums are not endorsed by SixPackSpeak.com.