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Thread: Will Rogers

  1. #1

    Will Rogers

    This is not any kind of argument about our QBs strengths and weaknesses, fitness to be the starter or ability to find and hit receivers 20 yards away.

    But 3 games into a season we have a QB who has thrown for nearly 1,100 yards, completing 122 passes at a 75% clip, with 8 TDs and 1 interception.

    And it feels like more than half the fanbase wants him benched. I don't know the answer, but I do find that pretty amazing.


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  2. #2
    Agreed


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  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by She Mate Me View Post
    This is not any kind of argument about our QBs strengths and weaknesses, fitness to be the starter or ability to find and hit receivers 20 yards away.

    But 3 games into a season we have a QB who has thrown for nearly 1,100 yards, completing 122 passes at a 75% clip, with 8 TDs and 1 interception.

    And it feels like more than half the fanbase wants him benched. I don't know the answer, but I do find that pretty amazing.
    Some of us predicted this before the season started. It happens every year no matter who the starting QB is. State fans always think the grass is greener whether it be QB or coach.


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  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by She Mate Me View Post
    This is not any kind of argument about our QBs strengths and weaknesses, fitness to be the starter or ability to find and hit receivers 20 yards away.

    But 3 games into a season we have a QB who has thrown for nearly 1,100 yards, completing 122 passes at a 75% clip, with 8 TDs and 1 interception.

    And it feels like more than half the fanbase wants him benched. I don't know the answer, but I do find that pretty amazing.
    Yes those numbers ALONE are fairly impressive but you have to look at the whole picture. Heís throwing almost double the # of passes of a normal QB to achieve those yardage numbers. Thus his yards per attempt and yards per completion are much lower than ideal.

    You also have to factor in that we have absolutely no running game so Willís passing yards are 95% of our total yardage numbers. He HAS to throw for 350+ for us to even be competitive.


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  5. #5
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    We have some pretty terrible fans.

    Does he need to take chances throwing down field more? Yes. Is he a bad quarterback? No, far from it.


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  6. #6
    I don't want him benched. I just don't want him to have to do everything. We are averaging 2.7ypc and 45ypg rushing.

    We do a courtesy run play on 1st to "keep the D honest" but it is usually a 1yd gain at best. I'm not sure our O line is being taught to run block. For all the attitude that the Leach culture brought back, I sure don't see it in the offense. But a passing offense doesn't have much attitude IMO anyway.

    I am wondering if Mike Leach will innovate his philosophy and adapt to a new challenge (SEC defense) by embracing the necessity for a run game to open the pass.


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  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by She Mate Me View Post
    This is not any kind of argument about our QBs strengths and weaknesses, fitness to be the starter or ability to find and hit receivers 20 yards away.

    But 3 games into a season we have a QB who has thrown for nearly 1,100 yards, completing 122 passes at a 75% clip, with 8 TDs and 1 interception.

    And it feels like more than half the fanbase wants him benched. I don't know the answer, but I do find that pretty amazing.
    We have a QB that most of the time hits the check down because he can't find open receivers. Any QB with a pulse would have big numbers in this system. This nickel and diming shit is frustrating as hell. We need a gunslinger that moves around to find receivers open and if not take off and get 10+yards. Having an offense with a QB that is a zero threat to run is easier to defend against.


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  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Wizard View Post
    We have a QB that most of the time hits the check down because he can't find open receivers. Any QB with a pulse would have big numbers in this system. This nickel and diming shit is frustrating as hell. We need a gunslinger that moves around to find receivers open and if not take off and get 10+yards. Having an offense with a QB that is a zero threat to run is easier to defend against.

    This all day long!!


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  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Wizard View Post
    We have a QB that most of the time hits the check down because he can't find open receivers. Any QB with a pulse would have big numbers in this system. This nickel and diming shit is frustrating as hell. We need a gunslinger that moves around to find receivers open and if not take off and get 10+yards. Having an offense with a QB that is a zero threat to run is easier to defend against.
    He can't find open receivers but the important thing to note is that there are always open receivers. I don't think he trusts his arm to fit the ball in tight passing windows, and he's not experienced enough to throw guys open yet. So what we're seeing is indecision. It leads to check downs and stagnation, and it also leads to penalties from the offensive line.


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  10. #10
    I donít disagree, but Iíll respond with two points.

    1) Those numbers in a silo clearly donít mean squat because weíre 79th in the country in total offense and 71st in scoring offense. This is the QB equivalent of Norwood running for 2300 yds over two seasons back in 04 and 05, yet our offense stunk, and we won 6 games. Theyíre nice numbers, but when your QB is not a threat to run, you have no running game behind him, and you canít/wonít take deep shots, your QBs numbers need to be eye popping. Not just good

    2) Iím not calling for Rogers to be benched. What I am calling for is for Leach to figure this shit out, and I mean now. Heís kicked players off that donít fit his style, heís not going to add wrinkles to his stagnant offense, and he recruits players his way. If you do all that while constantly giving off this demeanor that you really donít give a damn what anybody else thinks, your plan needs to work. He needs to figure it out, and if he does, I donít care who is QB


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  11. #11
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    No he won't, never. He'll retire after collecting $5 million per year from us before he does that
    The poster formerly known as: dawgebag


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  12. #12
    This is the offense we get with Leach. During his years at WSU, completion percentage was high 60s - 70%. Average 10.5 yards per completion and just over 7 yards per attempt. Rogers is 8.9 yards per completion and 6.6 per attempt.

    So he's a little lower but not off by much (I wouldn't call it much lower than ideal in comparison to what Leach QBs have always done). He's a couple of deeper passes per game from doing as good as the typical Leach QB. Hopefully that comes with a little more experience, but we'll see what happens when SEC play starts.


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  13. #13
    I'll take your elevated pass attempt so less yardage per argument and see you with a 75% completion ratio and 1 int. He is at least protecting the ball while slinging it way more than we ever have in the past.


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  14. #14
    Cleveland Steamer missouridawg's Avatar
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    Hadad mentioned this on the T&L today and it's something that's been

    rattling around in my head as well. But the whole 'yards are yards' things is just complete and total bullshit.

    Running yards chew up more clock than passing yards considering that you don't really have incompletions on running plays (however you can go out of bounds). So if you're in control of the game a running yard should probably worth a little more than a passing yard.

    Regardless, it's not fun to see us throwing the ball for 350-400+ yards, outgain our opponents by triple digits, and figure out a way to lose.

    As Hadad and Faulk both mentioned... the horrendous call mattered. But jesus, it shouldn't be difficult to get a goal line package put in place.


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  15. #15
    I'll add, that this offense hasn't been successful so far, despite the QB numbers. It's an odd place to be because on paper, impressive stats are adding up, on the field it's tough to watch. My dad always told me that statistics were for losers. Said he never saw a winning team dwell on stats too much.


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  16. #16
    He's missing wide ass open big plays left and right. Missed a wide open guy on the 2 pt convert. Sat. He's dumping off every ball with open receivers downfield. It's not hard to run up numbers when you refuse to actually put some air under the ball instead of flipping for a couple yards. When you throw it as much as us, fewer than 21 points a game ain't much. He'll need to throw 4 or 5 TDs a game for us to win doing this.


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  17. #17
    And 8 passing TD's in three games, running the "air raid", against the teams we've played so far is definitely not "eye popping"


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  18. #18
    While I'm throwing out random observations, if two plays are handled correctly in this game State almost certainly wins and attitudes here a quite a bit different...

    1) the fumble return TD play is at least handled by State, resulting in a punt.

    2) the punt is handled correctly by the refs in some facet. Either simply calling the ball down as they should have, or calling one of the two obvious Memphis penalties.


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  19. #19
    I think Will Rogers has the ability to play the position, and play it well, for us. It is obvious he can throw it down the field when he is forced to due to situation. It is just a matter of wanting to and getting him to play in that situation mindset all the time.


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  20. #20
    And the thing that pisses me off about this is that we keep getting told over and over again that these wide splits are in place for the sole purpose of opening up the QBs throwing lanes. If they arenít creating open lanes for Rogers to throw the ball downfield, then what in the world is the purpose when they are clearly making things difficult for our O line personnel every week?


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  21. #21
    I donít want him benched. I do want him to take more chances downfield and stop killing our RBs. I am fine seeing how the season plays out. People lose their minds over a game or a quarter or an inning or an at bat


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  22. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Wizard View Post
    We have a QB that most of the time hits the check down because he can't find open receivers. Any QB with a pulse would have big numbers in this system. This nickel and diming shit is frustrating as hell. We need a gunslinger that moves around to find receivers open and if not take off and get 10+yards. Having an offense with a QB that is a zero threat to run is easier to defend against.
    80 of his 122 completions are to 7 different receivers who aren't RBs, so your first statement is false. A guy completing 75% of his passes can find open receivers and completes balls to them at a very high rate, full stop.

    His numbers right now are tracking similarly to Graham Harrell's full season sophomore stats, and Harrell rarely ran. His Yards per attempt are .8 lower, but his TD/Int rate is better and overall passer rating is almost identical.


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  23. #23
    What impressive stats? We're 11th in the SEC in total offense, and 2 of the defenses we've faced are among the worst in the NCAA. This offense is abysmal.


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  24. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by thatsbaseball View Post
    And 8 passing TD's in three games, running the "air raid", against the teams we've played so far is definitely not "eye popping"
    Amen.

    Even comparing Rogers #s this weekend vs what Arkansas St did to Mempho you canít brag on those either. Heís an adequate QB that needs much improvement.

    Heís not leading the offense downfield consistently, heís putting the OL in terrible position and heís way way too reliant on dump off passes to the backs which result in nothing. And the fact that people attributed the drop off in offensive production to losing Marks is ridiculous. Heís bulked up but heís the same guy as last year. He goes down on first contact whether itís a pass or run.


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  25. #25

    Devil's advocate

    Quote Originally Posted by She Mate Me View Post
    This is not any kind of argument about our QBs strengths and weaknesses, fitness to be the starter or ability to find and hit receivers 20 yards away.

    But 3 games into a season we have a QB who has thrown for nearly 1,100 yards, completing 122 passes at a 75% clip, with 8 TDs and 1 interception.

    And it feels like more than half the fanbase wants him benched. I don't know the answer, but I do find that pretty amazing.
    Nearly 100% of the offense is generated with his arm. We are a Top 80 offense in total offense, scoring, and YPP. While technically efficient, Will isn't getting the ball downfield and our offense is very pedestrian as a result.

    He's taking the easy routes that end up in short yardage. I feel like he's accurate and intelligent, but I think he's thinking too much and plays not to lose instead of to rip it up and score some points.


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  26. #26
    The QB was clearly the point of the whole post. If only the OP had named it clearly.***


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  27. #27
    Dak vs Tampa Bay - 42/58 72% 403 yds 9.5 YPC 3 TD 1 Int Long 31 yds

    SPS response - Dak looks amazing. Possible MVP if he keeps putting up those #s. 17ing special teams are to blame for the loss.

    Rogers vs Memphis 50/67 75% 419 yds 8.38 YPC 3 TD 0 Int Long 41 yds

    SPS response - Rogers sucks noodle arm. Doesn't throw the long ball. The back up QB needs to get some playing time.


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  28. #28
    So are you saying he don't thrown to the check down alot? 2 of top 3 in receptions are RB and the top receiver was WMarks up until the last game so it's not completely false. And comparing his stats to Graham Harrell up to this point is ridiculous. He probably has better stats than what a ton of great QB's had up to this point. That don't mean shit. He is missing the "it" factor that is needed for QB's in this system. (See Minshew) An overwhelming will to win at all costs. He just don't have it. He is at best a CUSA QB.
    Last edited by Wizard; 09-20-2021 at 01:32 PM.


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  29. #29
    I donít care what the stats say, heís been unimpressive. He canít find receivers downfield but they are there and open. Heís just not seeing them. Checks down way too much, heís very indecisive and heís not all that accurate once he leaves the pocket. At least once or twice a game, he makes a poor throw that costs lots of yards (throwing behind receivers/running backs). We could certainly do worse. Costello was way worse against the zone last year but I sure as hell hope we can do better in the future.


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  30. #30
    Sec ranks...
    Qbr: 12 of 15
    Passer rating: 10 of 13


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  31. #31
    My kids go to Brandon Highschool. My son was a Freshman when Will was a Senior. When Will was in highschool one half he kids thought he sucked at QB and the other half thought he was what they needed. So it is not surprising that's what's going on here. I want to keep him at QB. I wish he had a little more speed which would have helped on those two point conversions but on the other hand if our two RB's were healthy we might have been able to get the ball in the end zone at least once.


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  32. #32
    Cleveland Steamer missouridawg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by She Mate Me View Post
    While I'm throwing out random observations, if two plays are handled correctly in this game State almost certainly wins and attitudes here a quite a bit different...

    1) the fumble return TD play is at least handled by State, resulting in a punt.

    2) the punt is handled correctly by the refs in some facet. Either simply calling the ball down as they should have, or calling one of the two obvious Memphis penalties.
    I hear yaÖ but if we won this game 29-24 I would still be wondering why the 17 we donít have a goal line package, why we donít take easy points, and why Rogers only throws downfield when we are losing.


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  33. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by 047Dog View Post
    Amen.

    Even comparing Rogers #s this weekend vs what Arkansas St did to Mempho you canít brag on those either. Heís an adequate QB that needs much improvement.

    Heís not leading the offense downfield consistently, heís putting the OL in terrible position and heís way way too reliant on dump off passes to the backs which result in nothing. And the fact that people attributed the drop off in offensive production to losing Marks is ridiculous. Heís bulked up but heís the same guy as last year. He goes down on first contact whether itís a pass or run.
    I would hardly call this "result in nothing": against Mempho Johnson averaged 4.6 yards while Marks averaged 6.5 yards.

    RECEIVING no-yds/td latc ncst mem
    Dillon Johnson 16-116/0 3-14/0 6-70/0 7-32/0
    J. Marks 22-94/1 9-27/1 7-28/0 6-39/0


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  34. #34
    Good comparison wrap it dog. But Dallas probly had 150 rushing yards too. Will needs to go downfield more. That 2 play touchdown was beautiful and could probly have happened every time we had the ball


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  35. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by msstate7 View Post
    Sec ranks...
    Qbr: 12 of 15
    Passer rating: 10 of 13
    From SEC web page:

    Passing Yards
    NAME YDS
    Will Rogers, QB 1083
    Matt Corral, QB 997
    Connor Bazelak, QB 897
    Max Johnson, QB 863
    Bryce Young, QB 811
    Complete Leaders



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  36. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by PirateDawg View Post
    From SEC web page:

    Passing Yards
    NAME YDS
    Will Rogers, QB 1083
    Matt Corral, QB 997
    Connor Bazelak, QB 897
    Max Johnson, QB 863
    Bryce Young, QB 811
    Complete Leaders

    Pretty horrible of the sec page to not know the difference in passer rating and QBR. They listed passer rating under qbr. Here's my source...

    http://cfbstats.com/2021/leader/911/...02/sort02.html

    The only difference is cfbstats has Daniels as a non-qualifier.

    ESPN created qbr, and here's a link to sec qbr rankings...

    https://www.espn.com/college-football/qbr/_/group/8


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  37. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by horshack View Post
    I'll add, that this offense hasn't been successful so far, despite the QB numbers. It's an odd place to be because on paper, impressive stats are adding up, on the field it's tough to watch. My dad always told me that statistics were for losers. Said he never saw a winning team dwell on stats too much.

    Agree.

    The only stat that really matters is the final score of the game.


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  38. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by Ralph Cramden View Post
    Good comparison wrap it dog. But Dallas probly had 150 rushing yards too.
    18 rushes for 60 yds. Dak had of 13 those yds on 4 rushes/scrambles. Zeke 33 yds and Pollard 14 yds. The Cowboys run game did pretty much nothing. State had 49 yds rushing vs Memphis


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  39. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by msstate7 View Post
    Pretty horrible of the sec page to not know the difference in passer rating and QBR. They listed passer rating under qbr. Here's my source...

    http://cfbstats.com/2021/leader/911/...02/sort02.html

    The only difference is cfbstats has Daniels as a non-qualifier.

    ESPN created qbr, and here's a link to sec qbr rankings...

    https://www.espn.com/college-football/qbr/_/group/8
    Will is a sophomore and has a 145 QBR

    Here's Matt Corral as a sophomore:
    2019 Mississippi RebelsMatt Corral #2Passing Split Statsthrough 01/13/2020




    Split G Att Comp Pct. Yards Yards/Att TD Int Rating Att/G Yards/G
    All Games 10 178 105 59.0 1362 7.7 6 3 131.02 17.8 136.2
    at Home 6 125 77 61.6 999 8.0 5 1 140.33 20.8 166.5
    on Road/Neutral Site 4 53 28 52.8 363 6.8 1 2 109.04 13.3 90.8
    in Wins 3 56 39 69.6 520 9.3 4 0 171.21 18.7 173.3
    in Losses 7 122 66 54.1 842 6.9 2 3 112.57 17.4 120.3
    vs. Conference 6 86 51 59.3 729 8.5 4 2 141.21 14.3 121.5
    vs. Non-Conference 4 92 54 58.7 633 6.9 2 1 121.49 23.0 158.3
    vs. Ranked (AP) 3 36 18 50.0 195 5.4 1 1 99.11 12.0 65.0
    vs. Unranked (AP) 7 142 87 61.3 1167 8.2 5 2 139.10 20.3 166.7
    vs. FBS (I-A) 9 148 84 56.8 1123 7.6 4 3 125.37 16.4 124.8
    vs. FCS (I-AA) 1 30 21 70.0 239 8.0 2 0 158.92 30.0 239.0
    vs. FBS Winning 5 94 50 53.2 585 6.2 1 2 104.71 18.8 117.0
    vs. FBS Non-Winning 4 54 34 63.0 538 10.0 3 1 161.28 13.5 134.5
    vs. FBS Power 5 7 127 73 57.5 995 7.8 4 2 130.54 18.1 142.1
    vs. FBS non-Power 5 2 21 11 52.4 128 6.1 0 1 94.06 10.5 64.0
    in August/September 4 114 68 59.6 844 7.4 4 1 131.67 28.5 211.0
    in October 2 33 20 60.6 257 7.8 0 1 119.97 16.5 128.5
    in November 4 31 17 54.8 261 8.4 2 1 140.40 7.8 65.3
    in December/January 0 0 0 - 0 - 0 0 - - -


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  40. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by PirateDawg View Post
    Will is a sophomore and has a 145 QBR

    Here's Matt Corral as a sophomore:
    2019 Mississippi RebelsMatt Corral #2Passing Split Statsthrough 01/13/2020




    Split G Att Comp Pct. Yards Yards/Att TD Int Rating Att/G Yards/G
    All Games 10 178 105 59.0 1362 7.7 6 3 131.02 17.8 136.2
    at Home 6 125 77 61.6 999 8.0 5 1 140.33 20.8 166.5
    on Road/Neutral Site 4 53 28 52.8 363 6.8 1 2 109.04 13.3 90.8
    in Wins 3 56 39 69.6 520 9.3 4 0 171.21 18.7 173.3
    in Losses 7 122 66 54.1 842 6.9 2 3 112.57 17.4 120.3
    vs. Conference 6 86 51 59.3 729 8.5 4 2 141.21 14.3 121.5
    vs. Non-Conference 4 92 54 58.7 633 6.9 2 1 121.49 23.0 158.3
    vs. Ranked (AP) 3 36 18 50.0 195 5.4 1 1 99.11 12.0 65.0
    vs. Unranked (AP) 7 142 87 61.3 1167 8.2 5 2 139.10 20.3 166.7
    vs. FBS (I-A) 9 148 84 56.8 1123 7.6 4 3 125.37 16.4 124.8
    vs. FCS (I-AA) 1 30 21 70.0 239 8.0 2 0 158.92 30.0 239.0
    vs. FBS Winning 5 94 50 53.2 585 6.2 1 2 104.71 18.8 117.0
    vs. FBS Non-Winning 4 54 34 63.0 538 10.0 3 1 161.28 13.5 134.5
    vs. FBS Power 5 7 127 73 57.5 995 7.8 4 2 130.54 18.1 142.1
    vs. FBS non-Power 5 2 21 11 52.4 128 6.1 0 1 94.06 10.5 64.0
    in August/September 4 114 68 59.6 844 7.4 4 1 131.67 28.5 211.0
    in October 2 33 20 60.6 257 7.8 0 1 119.97 16.5 128.5
    in November 4 31 17 54.8 261 8.4 2 1 140.40 7.8 65.3
    in December/January 0 0 0 - 0 - 0 0 - - -
    Probably would be a more fair comparison if you waited till will faced sec teams.
    It's passer rating BTW.


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