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  1. #1

    Firing Moorhead was a mistake.

    Downvote away, but provide an objective, fact-based counter-argument. In what areas of Moorhead’s weaknesses are we improved?

    And don’t give me, “Firing Moorhead was right, hiring Leach was wrong.” If you can’t hire a better coach, we would have been better off giving the guy with a winning record a third year.


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  2. #2
    Hiring Moorehead was a mistake.

    this shit show got a foothold 5 minutes after Mullen walked out the door.


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  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by WalkTheDawg View Post
    Hiring Moorehead was a mistake.

    this shit show got a foothold 5 minutes after Mullen walked out the door.
    Different argument, but thanks for playing.

    Mullen left. We couldn’t stop that from happening. You think we should have hired someone else. Cool. But we made the decision to fire Moorhead after two years and replace him. And it hasn’t worked.

    There is a fundamental difference between a hire that doesn’t work out (most don’t) and deciding to fire a coach with a winning record after two seasons as the 7th best program (at best) in the conference. The amount of people who don’t seem to understand this is astounding.


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  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Quincy A. Wagstaff View Post
    Downvote away, but provide an objective, fact-based counter-argument. In what areas of Moorhead’s weaknesses are we improved?

    And don’t give me, “Firing Moorhead was right, hiring Leach was wrong.” If you can’t hire a better coach, we would have been better off giving the guy with a winning record a third year.
    Have you had too much whiskey or not enough?


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  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Quincy A. Wagstaff View Post
    Downvote away, but provide an objective, fact-based counter-argument. In what areas of Moorhead’s weaknesses are we improved?

    And don’t give me, “Firing Moorhead was right, hiring Leach was wrong.” If you can’t hire a better coach, we would have been better off giving the guy with a winning record a third year.
    Moorhead would have lost today’s game 28-3 and lost the La Tech game 34-21. We were such a bunch of no ball pussy losers in 2019 that we didn’t even get off the bus in half our SEC games. Go rewatch those 2019 Auburn and UT games if you don’t believe me.

    Today, and all season really, we’ve seen a bunch of critical mistakes at bad times. Some have been players not executing. Some have been poor coaching decisions. Some have been terrible officiating. But we have at least kept our nose to the grindstone in all 4 games and not given up. We’re probably the 3rd or 4th least talented team in the SEC, so that mentality is going to need to continue for this to not be an unmitigated disaster. But to say we should have kept Moorhead is flat out idiotic. Our games this year have been over in the last 2 minutes of the 4th quarter. With Moorhead, they were over with 15 minutes to go in the 1st quarter in many instances.


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  6. #6
    Go rewatch us play at UT in 2019.


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  7. #7
    Not firing Moorhead after the Eggbowl was the real mistake. All of the other coaches were off the board except for Sark, Leach, and Napier after the bowls.

    17 peanut oil face Keenum for that cluster.


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  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Go Budaw View Post
    Moorhead would have lost today’s game 28-3 and lost the La Tech game 34-21.
    He hypothetically would have lost? Sorry. I was asking for fact-based arguments. Thx.


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  9. #9
    Yeah, I was there. It was somehow as bad as Maine and the Auburn 6-3 game combined. UT fans were so happy and talking trash to all of us. I kept thinking, y’all know y’all suck right? You know that piece of cornbread you hired as a coach isn’t going to do it right? It was awful. Like Mike Leach awful.


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  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by notoriousD_O_G View Post
    Go rewatch us play at UT in 2019.
    Add Auburn 2019 and UK 2018 to that list


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  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by JoeLee'sSocks View Post
    Not firing Moorhead after the Eggbowl was the real mistake. All of the other coaches were off the board except for Sark, Leach, and Napier after the bowls.

    17 peanut oil face Keenum for that cluster.
    I agree that the timing demonstrated that we didn’t know what we were doing.


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  12. #12
    Didn’t Napier turn us down? If that is indeed true, which I understand it to be, that is still a head-scratcher to me. I wanted him. Thought he was right for us. Have no idea why that did not work.


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  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by vandaldawg View Post
    Didn’t Napier turn us down? If that is indeed true, which I understand it to be, that is still a head-scratcher to me. I wanted him. Thought he was right for us. Have no idea why that did not work.
    to be fair.. for some reason he has turned a few teams down.


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  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Quincy A. Wagstaff View Post
    He hypothetically would have lost? Sorry. I was asking for fact-based arguments. Thx.
    Go 17 yourself. It’s a fact that Moorhead’s team quit before the game even started in Year 2. It’s a fact that Leach’s team keeps busting their ass through their own mistakes to try and salvage a W in Year 2. It’s also a fact that Rogers still has a fully intact ocular cavity on both sides of his skull. What “fact based argument” do you have for saying we should have kept Moorhead?


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  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by vandaldawg View Post
    Didn’t Napier turn us down? If that is indeed true, which I understand it to be, that is still a head-scratcher to me. I wanted him. Thought he was right for us. Have no idea why that did not work.
    Yes. He turned both us and South Carolina down….and he went to college and has tons of roots in South Carolina, too.


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  16. #16
    Hiring a baseball coach to be an AD was the original mistake.


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  17. #17
    Moorhead was a cluster 17.


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  18. #18
    L4Dawg - Version 2.0
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    Quote Originally Posted by MSUDC11 View Post
    Hiring a baseball coach to be an AD was the original mistake.
    THIS all day long.


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  19. #19
    No football facts matter, not that I can name any in favor of JoMo. The key fact is that After the post Egg Bowl press conference, JoMo lost most of the fan base. After the bowl game he had practically nobody on his side. It was bad and getting worse. And prior to that presser I was firmly in the gotta give a third year camp.


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  20. #20
    Firing him was right hiring leach was wrong. Hiring moorhead was wrong.


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  21. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by vandaldawg View Post
    Didn’t Napier turn us down? If that is indeed true, which I understand it to be, that is still a head-scratcher to me. I wanted him. Thought he was right for us. Have no idea why that did not work.
    Having watched Wake Forrest skull drag Virginia last night, I am totally convinced that Dave Clausen at Wake Forrest is the best coach out there outside of Saban and the other blue blood programs. I challenge anyone out there to prove me wrong.


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  22. #22
    We would hire him, we would lose two games and half the people on this site would melt down calling for him to be fired or saying it was a mistake to hire him.


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  23. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Go Budaw View Post
    Go 17 yourself. It’s a fact that Moorhead’s team quit before the game even started in Year 2. It’s a fact that Leach’s team keeps busting their ass through their own mistakes to try and salvage a W in Year 2. It’s also a fact that Rogers still has a fully intact ocular cavity on both sides of his skull. What “fact based argument” do you have for saying we should have kept Moorhead?
    Go 17 myself? lol I’m sorry you are feeling so emotional.

    I remember Egg Bowl 2019 the talk of town before the game was Moorhead was gone. That defense didn’t play like a team that had quit. Somehow they came ready to play with all of the distractions.

    Not sure how Will Rogers is an argument against Moorhead.

    Why did we fire Moorhead? Wins and losses, discipline (penalties/fights in practice), offensive scheme that didn’t fit. What am I missing?

    Since firing Moorhead, our winning % has decreased, our offensive stats have fallen in SEC ranks, we are last in the league in penalty yards per game, and I remember watching us being involved in a nationally televised brawl.

    For winning % and stats I’m looking at SEC-only results because Leach has played mostly SEC games.

    So in what area of Moorhead’s weaknesses are we improved? If the decision to fire Moorhead was such a no-brainer, seems like we could point to objective areas of improvement. It is not hard to point to how we are worse.

    Also, the fear of not firing Moorhead was people losing interest and not going to games. Ignore 2020, but let’s see the improvement in attendance at the end of this year with no restrictions.


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  24. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by CookieMonster View Post
    Have you had too much whiskey or not enough?
    After you sober up, make the case for how we are better off 20 months after firing Moorhead.


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  25. #25

    The coach we probably should have hired,

    is now at South Carolina.
    Jack may be gone, but he is "EVER PRESENT"


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  26. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by JoeLee'sSocks View Post
    Not firing Moorhead after the Eggbowl was the real mistake. All of the other coaches were off the board except for Sark, Leach, and Napier after the bowls.

    17 peanut oil face Keenum for that cluster.
    One of the boosters flew Kiffin to Starkville around the time we thought Moorhead was out pre egg bowl. Remember the picture that Kiffin tweeted out that had our fans riled up? I can’t remember specifically what the picture was of, maybe the egg bowl trophy, but it obviously came from inside MSU facilities.

    In typical MSU fashion, we will never know what could have been because of that egg bowl shit show that saved Moorhead for a month or so.


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  27. #27
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    We should’ve hire Sam Pittman


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  28. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by Quincy A. Wagstaff View Post
    Go 17 myself? lol I’m sorry you are feeling so emotional.

    I remember Egg Bowl 2019 the talk of town before the game was Moorhead was gone. That defense didn’t play like a team that had quit. Somehow they came ready to play with all of the distractions.

    Not sure how Will Rogers is an argument against Moorhead.

    Why did we fire Moorhead? Wins and losses, discipline (penalties/fights in practice), offensive scheme that didn’t fit. What am I missing?

    Since firing Moorhead, our winning % has decreased, our offensive stats have fallen in SEC ranks, we are last in the league in penalty yards per game, and I remember watching us being involved in a nationally televised brawl.

    For winning % and stats I’m looking at SEC-only results because Leach has played mostly SEC games.

    So in what area of Moorhead’s weaknesses are we improved? If the decision to fire Moorhead was such a no-brainer, seems like we could point to objective areas of improvement. It is not hard to point to how we are worse.

    Also, the fear of not firing Moorhead was people losing interest and not going to games. Ignore 2020, but let’s see the improvement in attendance at the end of this year with no restrictions.
    I’ve already replied, twice, to what has improved. Our effort and our locker room culture….two things that have to be there at a bare minimum for any coach to not get fired immediately. Did you somehow forget that we had a linebacker break the face of our starting QB before the bowl game, and didn’t even get suspended for a single play of said game? Did you forget tutorgate? Did you forget us starting the Auburn game with 3 consecutive delay of game penalties?

    And propping up our effort against a 3-8 Ole Miss team is comical, in a game where the most valuable player was the dude on the other team who fake peed in the end zone. You are truly a lost soul if you think Moorhead sticking around for a 3rd year would have been anything short of a disaster.

    ETA: Our offensive stats are better in SEC play as well, if you exclude the Costello debacle. Our offense under 5th year senior Nick Fitzgerald averaged 19.25 points per game in the SEC in Year 1 of Moorhead. We averaged 26.6 points per game in true freshmen Will Rogers’ 5 games as a starter last year, after we finally got the dude with the yips the hell out of there.
    Last edited by Go Budaw; 09-25-2021 at 05:50 PM.


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  29. #29
    Our fan base would have freaked out. Not in a good way.


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  30. #30

    They had a good idea who he was,

    believe that he was an assistant at UPig, and then left.

    Sounded like the players loved him, and wanted him.
    Jack may be gone, but he is "EVER PRESENT"


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  31. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by Go Budaw View Post
    I’ve already replied, twice, to what has improved. Our effort and our locker room culture….two things that have to be there at a bare minimum for any coach to not get fired immediately. Did you somehow forget that we had a linebacker break the face of our starting QB before the bowl game, and didn’t even get suspended for a single play of said game? Did you forget tutorgate? Did you forget us starting the Auburn game with 3 consecutive delay of game penalties?

    And propping up our effort against a 3-8 Ole Miss team is comical, in a game where the most valuable player was the dude on the other team who fake peed in the end zone. You are truly a lost soul if you think Moorhead sticking around for a 3rd year would have been anything short of a disaster.
    I’m not sure you know what objective means. “Our locker room culture is better” is not an objective argument. The fight in practice, that was bad. But it’s hard to say things improved when there was a nationally televised brawl the next year. And tutorgate was happening before Moorhead arrived. Is there evidence he had knowledge of it and allowed it to continue? And how is last in penalty yards per game better than “once we started a game with three penalties”?

    Eventually, there has to be objective areas of improvement, specifically, wins and losses. Until there is, all you have is subjective arguments of what Moorhead hypothetically would have done today.


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  32. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by Quincy A. Wagstaff View Post
    I’m not sure you know what objective means. “Our locker room culture is better” is not an objective argument. The fight in practice, that was bad. But it’s hard to say things improved when there was a nationally televised brawl the next year. And tutorgate was happening before Moorhead arrived. Is there evidence he had knowledge of it and allowed it to continue? And how is last in penalty yards per game better than “once we started a game with three penalties”?

    Eventually, there has to be objective areas of improvement, specifically, wins and losses. Until there is, all you have is subjective arguments of what Moorhead hypothetically would have done today.
    Go reread the edit. Fitzgerald led us to 19.25 points per game as a 17ing 5th year senior, over 8 games. Rogers, as a true freshmen, led us to 26.6 points per game over 5 games. There is no disputing that the offense, however frustrating it may be, is far better than that garbage Moorhead put on the field.

    I don’t know why I’m even getting this deep. You’re either a moron or trolling, or both.


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  33. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by Go Budaw View Post
    Go reread the edit. Fitzgerald led us to 19.25 points per game as a 17ing 5th year senior, over 8 games. Rogers, as a true freshmen, led us to 26.6 points per game over 5 games. There is no disputing that the offense, however frustrating it may be, is far better than that garbage Moorhead put on the field.

    I don’t know why I’m even getting this deep. You’re either a moron or trolling, or both.
    Wow that is deep. Not only are you ignoring Moorhead’s second season, you are ignoring certain games to improve Leach’s stats. If you don’t ignore any SEC games, we ranked higher in the league in scoring offense in 2018 than we did in 2020. And we improved from 2018 to 2019. But at least we are dealing in objective stats.


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  34. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by Quincy A. Wagstaff View Post
    Wow that is deep. Not only are you ignoring Moorhead’s second season, you are ignoring certain games to improve Leach’s stats. If you don’t ignore any SEC games, we ranked higher in the league in scoring offense in 2018 than we did in 2020. And we improved from 2018 to 2019. But at least we are dealing in objective stats.
    Moorhead’s 2nd season was just about as bad (23 ppg in SEC contests). I ignored it because there is no 2nd season of Leach to compare it to (yet). The one game sample size average is obviously better than that. The only thing I threw out was the Costello games because when a guy who threw for almost 4,000 yards at the Power 5 level just decides he’s going to start throwing the ball directly to a rushing LB that’s 10 feet in front of him and not standing within 5 yards of any receiver, and he does it like 5 times, it’s not an “offensive system” problem, it’s a “this guy has had a complete mental breakdown” problem. If you knew anything at all about football or sports in general, you wouldn’t lay that at Leach’s feet.
    Last edited by Go Budaw; 09-25-2021 at 09:01 PM.


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  35. #35
    Trying to fly a plane while building it Leach has put up about the same exact numbers as Moorhead’s offense. You can bookmark this to heckle at the end of the season, but I am confident that by the end of this year the offensive numbers will be far better than anything Moorhead ever produced.


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  36. #36
    L4Dawg - Version 2.0
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    The bottom line is no matter what we thought of Joe firing a guy with a winning record in football at MSU was a monumental mistake. That's how we wound up having to pay through the nose for a clown. We basically have self destructed the football program for the foreseeable future. As much as I'd like to we can't afford to fire the clown for at least two more years. That gives us plenty of time to get rid of the root of the problem before we have to hire another football coach.


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  37. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by Go Budaw View Post
    Go reread the edit. Fitzgerald led us to 19.25 points per game as a 17ing 5th year senior, over 8 games. Rogers, as a true freshmen, led us to 26.6 points per game over 5 games. There is no disputing that the offense, however frustrating it may be, is far better than that garbage Moorhead put on the field.

    I don’t know why I’m even getting this deep. You’re either a moron or trolling, or both.
    I was going to say I don’t understand why anyone is responding to this thread, it’s complete nonsense and the OP knows it. Just let it die.


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  38. #38

    I think there is one thing we all can agree on...

    Quote Originally Posted by Quincy A. Wagstaff View Post
    Downvote away, but provide an objective, fact-based counter-argument. In what areas of Moorhead’s weaknesses are we improved?

    And don’t give me, “Firing Moorhead was right, hiring Leach was wrong.” If you can’t hire a better coach, we would have been better off giving the guy with a winning record a third year.
    Our message board fanbase proves day in and day out that they know what's best for our university and athletics in particular.

    How so many of our fans just knew the day he was hired how soon Moorhead would fail. How getting Lemonis, and not a name coach was going to pay off. How Stansbury was holding our program back.

    Yes, no matter how bad things get, we can always come to the good ole pack and find the pearls of wisdom people like John Cohen just don't get.


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  39. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by mount lefroy View Post
    Our message board fanbase proves day in and day out that they know what's best for our university and athletics in particular.

    How so many of our fans just knew the day he was hired how soon Moorhead would fail. How getting Lemonis, and not a name coach was going to pay off. How Stansbury was holding our program back.

    Yes, no matter how bad things get, we can always come to the good ole pack and find the pearls of wisdom people like John Cohen just don't get.
    Yep, and to think we’re giving away all these nuggets for free, too. We should start charging a per post commission for hot takes***


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  40. #40
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    Moorhead’s big problem: Inexperienced leadership. He was in over his head and it affected him in public with his postgame interviews, which is too bad because he was universally seen as a good hire on paper.

    Leach improves upon Moorhead with his experience as a head coach at multiple P5 schools and his seeming even-keeled approach to things.

    One big problem with Leach as head coach is that it takes time for repetitions to work for the offense to get going and this was compounded with the pandemic taking away spring installation of the offense last year, we’re essentially in the second half of the first season— partly why I was thinking 6-6– 7-5 at most this season.

    Right now though, we’re looking at 5-7– maybe 6-6 if things work out. I tend to be pessimistic so I don’t expect the sixth win.


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